Conversation with Christopher Ender Coryat

Please enjoy my conversation with Christopher Ender Coryat. 

Ender is a multidisciplinary artist and curator based in New York. His practice confronts systems of control through deeply personal, material-based investigations. Drawing on his lived experience with epilepsy and disability, Ender creates sculptural installations, performances, and pigment-based paintings that center the body as a site of vulnerability, resistance, and transformation.

Often working with pharmaceutical pigments ground-down medications once prescribed to him, he explores spaces like bathrooms, hospitals, and other liminal zones as sites of solitude and survival. His work challenges the boundaries between the private and the public, the sacred and the clinical, using form, texture, and sonic experimentation to guide viewers through layered, embodied narratives.

https://www.christopherendercoryat.com/

https://www.instagram.com/endercoryat/ 

https://www.salkschool.org/

https://cooper.edu/

https://www.artstudentsleague.org/ 

Fragmentation of Identity Show- Closes January 20th https://artspaces.kunstmatrix.com/en/exhibition/14879514/fragmentation-identity 

ALLICETTE Y EL PAIS DE LAS MARAVILLAS (ALLICETTE IN WONDERLAND)

https://artspaces.kunstmatrix.com/node/14714157

https://revolugallery.com/nyc-art-events

Here's the artist residency link: https://revolugallery.com/the-art-residency

Here is the magazine submission link: https://belicosamag.com/about-2

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to Salvage, a podcast for conversations with artists about the repurposed materials they use in their art practice.

Please enjoy my conversation with Christopher Ender Coryat. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Yes. Yay! Ender is a multidisciplinary artist and curator based in New York.

His practice confronts systems of control through deeply personal, material based investigations, drawing on his lived experience with epilepsy and disability, and creates sculptural installations, performances and pigment based paintings that center the body as a site of vulnerability, resistance, and transformation. Often working with pharmaceutical pigments, ground down medications once prescribed to him, he explores spaces like bathrooms, hospitals and other liminal zones as sites of solitude and survival.

His work challenges the boundaries between the private and the public, the sacred and the clinical. Using form, texture, and sonic experimentation to guide viewers through layered embodied narratives. It's a great statement. Thank you. An unusual one, like not one I. You know, most statements are well, they get it, they get in deep. But some of them, you know, they're mostly they're painting with oils or they're doing sculpture with traditional materials.

So to hear and just like when I first met you and you told me what you were painting with, I was like, wait, what? How what how? That makes no sense. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people usually think it's me just tiling pills all the time. Oh. Tiling pills. Okay, a lot of people think that. And then they see the works and they're like,

Oh. So when they hear the description, they think it's tiling them. Oh, I suppose that could could work in theory. Okay. Yeah. But a whole different process then. I have a lot of pills. Not that many. Well and times have changed. Yeah. Times have changed. I have like a donation now. So every time I go to a show or I had this show, people bring me all of their old pills.

Oh, I wish I had known that. I have, like, a baggie of pills. I keep meaning to drop off at CVS, and I haven't done it. I am that box of CVS. Okay, you're going to get this because I've been it's been sitting in my car for months now because I just keep forgetting about it for oh, you drove here, I did.

We can walk back to my car. Oh, I'll follow you home. All right, so let me take you back, though. Let's start with where did you grow up? I grew up in New York City, so born and raised. And I bounced between Harlem and the Lower East Side. Oh, okay. That's quite a distance. Yeah, but that's that was a part of it because I went to school down there on like 23rd.

I went to Salk and then high school. I was at Beacon, but the whole time I was doing art classes all over the place. And then in high school, I did four years at the Saturday program at Cooper. So I was always down by Saint Mark's. Every weekend. Yeah. For four years. Yeah. Well that answers my questions about whether you were an artist as a kid.

Oh really. You were from the beginning. So what kind of art did you make as a kid. A lot of painting, a lot of, portraiture, a lot of figures. And then of course, drawing. So yeah. From the beginning. Yeah. And what kind of like acrylic paints? Or did you go to oil paints right away? True.

It was acrylic. And then I fell in love with oil because I really liked how things didn't dry immediately. Like, I used acrylic recently as, like, an experiment for something, and I was like, this dries. So fast. It does. Like, you have to really know what you want to do. Like, there's no room for mistakes unless you like paint.

All right. Exactly. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm not much of a painter, but I did in high school and in college, and I took some classes up at, Art Students League. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So I did some painting there. And I, I do remember loving the oil paint. There's just such a.

Yeah, there's just something wonderful about. And the smell of it. I love the smell of oil paints and all the other mixtures that you use. All the tinctures and the ethanol. Yeah, that's what scares me a little bit. Oh, if you got a jar with a lid, you're fine. Okay. I have jars with lids. Okay. Because you need to clean your brushes and also thin it out and yeah, the turpentine and all of that.

Or is it turpenoid. I don't know much cheaper. Yeah. Home depot oh gosh. Home Depot. Now I stay away from there. My safe place. My safe place. Really. Yeah. My dad, my dad's a plumber. So it's like I was all in and out of there as a kid. Oh, okay. So I walk in there now and I'm just like, oh, it's home.

It is. And then they have the discarded paint also, which is like $5 for like a messed up paint that no one came to collect. So it's always like the best place to grab like a medium. Oh, you know, good to know I got to. Oh I got to you. Not that I'm planning on painting anytime soon, but good to know.

Maybe some of my listeners. Good to know about that. Yeah. So then you went to Cooper Union. That's exciting. That's a really difficult school to get into if I can remember correctly. Yes, yes. Back then I got it in 2014. So that was the year directly after they stopped free tuition. Oh no. So for your listeners, Cooper Union historically was a school that accepted women and people of color, and all the classes were free.

Yeah, it didn't matter. And that was for about 100 years. And then with the administration and the problems that they were having, that was the first year that they started to charge students. So that was my year. Ouch. And I believe they're still charging students, but they're working back on a free tuition. Yes, I did hear that. I hope they can figure it out.

It's still going, I mean, it's such a procedure. School. I remember I had a friend from high school that got in there, and we were all just, like, in awe. It was hard. Yeah. Oh. Excuse me. It was hard to get in. It's even harder to stand. Oh, okay. Because even though you did all this hard work in high school, they still have like a GPA cutoff where they can drop you and kick you out.

But then it's also learning all the different skills to just maintain creativity. That's what's different. Like, people don't understand that. I'm sure you understood that when you were in college as well. In art school. Well, you got to keep working. Yes, I know, and that's the thing. And you have to keep getting pushed and metaphorically beaten down the abuse so you can rise up again.

Oh, yeah. I had a one painting teacher in my junior year that would just make me cry. Oh, no. Yeah, he would just give me so much anxiety because he's like, what is this? What are you doing? Why? And you just every class, it was just me. Just you. Oh, yeah. No, it hurt. Oh, hurt. But I thank him every day.

Yeah. Because he made me question why I was doing things and all the steps involved in my practice. Like I always say, the best thing about art school is it teaches you how to communicate. It teaches you how to talk to other people and talk about your work in a way that you didn't before. And you're forced to do that every day.

Yeah. Whether you're in your studio and then you have to then interact with people at a show, at a gallery amongst your peers and with yourself. And you have to learn how to write. Yes. Oh my God, that is so key, so important and so hard. Years of due diligence. Yes, yes. Years. Years. Oh, wonderful. So how so?

When you at Cooper Union, you painted in oils or or what you did in oils. But I was really intertwined with printmaking and sculpture as well. Oh, cool. What kind? Sculpture. So my pride and joy was my bathroom piece that I'd made called Face to Face Toilets. So it was on wheels. I tiled the space made wallpaper and I put two toilets that worked.

They were fully functional. Oh my God. So they each had their own sets of. So we call this assemblage the assemblies. I like that, and they worked. And so it was all about intimacy. But also your dad was a plumber. Exactly. I learned a thing or two. It worked. And, you know, like when it's like the big project that comes and it's just like, why would you do that?

Like, that's done. Come on. And you should know better. I'm like.

And yeah, it, the, the toilets were so close that you couldn't sit regularly when you would, you would have to either interlace your legs with someone else or you'd have to be sideways angle yourself. Oh my god. And people used it. Of course they did. Like they actually used. Oh yeah. Art school people were dropping shits across from each other.

A couple met, they're still together from that experience. All right. I went to camp where there were communal bathrooms, but that's different. Oh, that was a beautiful. And then I built a life sized bar after one of my favorite places at the time, and I just took different items from all the different bars I had visited. Like, McSorley was one of them, big bar was another.

And then I laid it out and it was like a full size bar. Oh, wow. I, oh. Like, it was maybe like 15, 16ft long. Wow. Yeah.

And then printmaking, of course, was just gorgeous. Whether that was with copper etching or then screen printing. I did a lot of screen printing and experiments with screen printing. Oh, cool. I had a project where I use chalk as my like ink. Usually you would use ink when you're screen printing, but I'd use chalk. Oh, how does that how does that stay on it?

The point is that it's eventually supposed to go away, ephemeral. And that project was all based on all the scars on my body. Oh, wow. So then I had photographed, like, over 50 scars that had had at the time. Holy smokes. I live in New York. Everything okay? Fall down the stairs. You're hoping that on the weekend you got burned with a torch?

Okay. Bike ride accident, too many other incidents. Okay, okay. And then I printed them like that, and then they all eventually faded. Faded? Wow. That's the hope, I hope. Do you have images of these somewhere? I have a couple left. A lot of them I gave away. So I do have a small collection left in the flat files.

Oh, cool. Well, so when did you. When why when did why did you start using medication as part of your process? That was about 3 or 4 years ago, around the same time that I got epilepsy. So. Right. I don't know much about epilepsy. I'm sorry. Is it like an onset? You kind of just. Are there any signs like that?

Is there like a, a time period from, like, I don't know, to 19 to 30 or something that you get it or how does that like. Well I met a lot of people that had it when they were kids and then they eventually grew out of it. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. But my case is different because I got it after I got Covid and I was super sick.

I couldn't eat for months because I couldn't nothing. Everything tasted like wet paper in my mouth. Oh. So I lost a bunch of weight. And then when I got out of the hospital, I started to collapse all over the place and have seizures. Oh geez. And at the time, I didn't realize that I was having seizures. Oh wow.

So like a prime example that I can look back on and now say it. I was on a FaceTime with my friend and I woke up and then just started back into the conversation and they're like, I was about to call the ambulance because you just dropped, oh my God. And then you just pop back up like you didn't even realize it had happened, like you were.

How long did you drop for? 2 or 3 minutes. Oh my God. Yeah. And I had no idea. Wow. None. And then that just started to happen all over the place. So this was this was obviously from Covid. Wow. Did they like confirm that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah that's crazy. So I'm a part of a research group because what they also confirmed was that I'm not the only one.

And then they brought up other cases of like 19 and 20 year olds having heart attacks that don't do drugs, don't drink. Oh wow. But it's because that is because of Covid directly linked to Covid, let's say improperly. Excuse me. That's okay. So wow. So the treatment for epilepsy is some kind of pills or pills. Pills, pills and pills that control the seizures basically prevent prevent seizures.

So is that like I'm assuming a daily regimen? Yep. So now every day I'm on about 500mg. So how I got so many pills is because for about a year after my diagnosis, you go and a doctor. All right. Try this five milligram pill. Maybe it'll work. Okay, that didn't work. Try this ten milligram pill, and I'm still falling down.

I'm still having seizures. Oh my God. All right, try this 50 milligram pill. That didn't work. Okay. Try this different brand. Okay, that doesn't work. You're you're having mood swings now. Okay. Try this different medication. Okay. You're saying that you're having problems with your heart. Like you feel like it's pump. Okay, try this. Different medication. Oh my God.

And so nothing really worked for a long time for like a little under a year. Wow. But then I would still I would have the pills. I can just throw them out. They still cost that money. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like they still cost that money. So then I just had like, this cash was just like pills.

And I would like, lay them out on my floor in front of, like, would because I was rebuilding, my house at the time, my grandmother's house, which is where I live now. Oh, cool. So that was my Covid project. Okay. Because no one could come and see me, right? I was sick, like they would, you know, leave some food on the stoop and then be gone.

Oh, gosh. How long did you have Covid? I'd say like the symptoms finally ceased after like a year. Oh my God. So I had long Covid. Wow. And then like, my sense of taste would disappear again after two months. So then I still couldn't eat anything because it was like chewing paper. Yeah. I couldn't taste anything for months, for months and months and months, but I knew I had to eat right.

So sorry that you had to go through that. It was. It was a rough time, I bet. And then I was totally alone in a house, so I'm just, you know, at the time, my grandmother, she had this, house so that she could rent it out. Single women, single mothers. Okay. Specifically because she remembers the hard times when she came to America.

And so she wanted to give back. Oh, cool. Where'd she come to America from? From Jamaica. Oh, cool. All the way back in the 70s or 80s. 70s there. 80s with my mom. So then long story short, the place was in ruin because of them. And so it was my job to then just kind of fix it back up, which was tearing down walls, insulating.

Let's do some electrical work. Let's do some classical plumbing or and then just putting everything back together. So that took a long time and probably slowly. Because you were sick. Yeah. Yeah. But it was something to do. Yes. I had a goal. I had a mission to actually accomplish. Yeah. So even though no one can come visit me, it's like, all right, I can build some shelves today.

Let's take everything down, build some shelves. Okay, great. This wall has a draft. Okay, let's tear it down. Let's check. Okay. It's not insulated properly. Let's do that. Right, right. Slow and slow and slow. Yeah. I feel like I kind of veered off. That's okay. It's all fascinating, though. It's, And and it's recent history. I mean, we're everything we talk about has something to do with pre-pandemic during pandemic or post pandemic.

That's how we judge our time these days, right? True. And so now everything feels like months ago, even though it was last week. It's like I don't respond to a message. I'm just like, oh my God. I woke up the next day and it's been 12 hours. Yeah, but I think it's been like four days, right? Oh my God.

They wanted to get dinner with me. I feel like a bad friend. All right, so you started laying out your pills on the wood that you had lying around, or next to the one you had lying around? Yeah, just next to the wood. So obviously I'd had a not obviously, but I'd had a bunch of leftover wood from when I was working on the house.

So I would cut down the extras and then just kind of lay them up, sand them down, just kind of get them ready. I didn't know for what at the time. I had done smaller paintings when I had moved in with some of the works which I still have hung up, actually, even on the wood. Yeah. Okay. So that's when I started to just kind of remake things during that period.

And, you know, at one time there was maybe like 50 jars of pills just laying on the ground. Because I didn't really want to forget either. What happened? Like the last bag seizure, I fell down the steps at Brighton Beach. Oh my God. And this is, like, directly afterwards when the medication we found the right mix, we found the right dose.

Like, now it's 500mg a day. So from five milligrams a day, the 500. Crazy. And it works, right? Thank god. But yeah shout out doctor as and then one night, because I had a surplus of gabapentin, which is this yellow pill here. Oh, this one here. Oh okay. So this was kind of like the start. So one night I decided, you know, I really love this yellow.

This yellow is so bright and vibrant. So I dumped out the contents of the pills into, like, a separate dish. And then you think about pills, you put them in your mouth. So then I put them all into my mouth and started to chew them up. But these were pills you weren't supposed to be taking anymore. That's fun.

It was fun. Okay. And then I spit them back and the mother in me is like, what are you doing? I know I, I have no regrets, but I did do this. I took them up, and then I spat them out into a jar, into the same pill jar. And then I just did this till it was full.

And then I left it out because I tried to paint with that, but I didn't really like it. So then over time, the levels would just get lower and lower and lower until it became really thick. And then I started to paint with that. And then I said, wait, this needs more body. So then I mixed in the contents of the inside of the pill.

Oh, because that's right. It's meant to dissolve. Exactly. And then now I had more play. It could act, excuse me. As a pigment that I could actually use to paint with. Okay, so then that was the beginning of what? Then this all grew to. Okay, so that was the antithesis. Wow. So right away you wanted to see if you could paint with it then.

Oh yeah. I was intoxicated with this yellow. It's so bright. It is a lovely yellow. Yes. And how long how long has it been up on the painting now? Over. I say close to two years. And it hasn't changed. No. Wow. Stable color in pills. Go figure. Right. Like. Like they would care about that. It's meant to last, though.

It's meant. Yes. And so then this piece and one other were the ones that I started with. So I'd started two pieces at tandem. One is a much smaller piece. And these pieces were both the investigations. Okay. So then as I started to use more of the pills and experiment with them, I realized that, you know, if I make some of them with like an oil paint base or then begin to make my actual oil paints myself, then I would get different textures and shapes.

So that's the I was looking at it here that that's the that looks like flake. No, that's that's the same pill. That's the same. That's that same yellow. Oh wow. And so I had a bunch of other pills and I started to grind them, and figure out method one was I would use a hammer in between so that I would still get some of the texture, and then I would grind them down and then for some colors, like I'll point out for this blue that is just straight oil paint okay, but still looks very smooth, but I still mixed in the pigments from the pills.

So all of this has pills in it? All of the paint has pills, just various levels of them and various textures of them. So then like this white all came from a separate pill. And then I started to use different methods like I said. So then now you can see the spit and what the spit does.

It's controlled disintegration. So those spots are probably getting bigger with time. Yes. Yeah. And it's beautiful though. It's in the face. Blue. Oh it's the whole thing. So you were still using spit spit as one method and then mixing it with the oil base. And then so I developed the methods for all the other pieces. Okay. With this piece.

With this piece. Okay. Please tell me you don't use spit anymore. No. Okay. Good. I found I found a better method. I became a scientist. Okay, good. The blue is my primary medication now, which is the same side all of. I have the whole list over there with the pills, that were used. The. Those names mean nothing to me.

This background is NyQuil. Oh, I'll allow you to touch it. Oh. Thank you. No one else.

The fingernails are some Chinese Tylenol. Chinese Tylenol. I visited China, it's a wonderful place. Yes, I've been there. And then all the other layers, like you could touch over here. So this is all with pills, Yeah. They it's it's looking at it. You certainly wouldn't guess. You just figure you're throwing in some sand and some other things and doing texture, and then I guess if I looked at it knowing nothing, it'd be like, oh, okay, well, this is something about, you know, she took those pills and whatever.

This is something to do with that. But I certainly wouldn't guess that there were pills in the paint. But then the depth. Now let's I'll bring it back. So then when I was in the hospital, I'm officially diagnosed with epilepsy. But they're trying to understand my epilepsy and what triggers it. So it was Christmas Day. That was the only time I had appointments.

So I'm like, they bring you in there for like 3 or 4 days. They connect your EKG wires. Oh, wow. They do all these different tests. Okay. Let's sleep deprive you today. Okay. We're going to spin this grave light in front of you to see if this triggers a seizure. I mean, it's the best place to have a seizure.

Well, yes, like in the hospital. Yes, but I'm wearing EKG wires for 3 or 4 days, and I'm miserable. I bet it. And then you have people walking in and out. All right, so you're getting no rest at all? Not even no rest. It's no. Singular moment for myself. Yeah. So I was running to the bathroom constantly. But I couldn't really run because the you're attached to.

I'm attached. It's an extension cord connected to my head. Yes. And so when I would go into the bathroom, that was the only place it was long enough to go into. And then while I was in there, I just started to replay memories and moments of bliss and joy and deep dark depression or the nervousness before sending a text, or just the feeling of like everything.

Like I replayed every moment like it was a movie while I was sitting in the bathroom with my EKG wires attached to my head. Wow. And then so when I got out and I was on the correct medication at this point, all of these paintings were those moments. Oh, wow. From the bathroom. And then I could officially say, did you, like, make notes after, you know, you didn't have time to make notes?

No, I didn't make it. So this was all in your head. You kept it all in your head like this is. It plays like a movie. Wow. It's a scene. It's a scene, it's scene. And it's so vivid and raw because it's like a punch as everyone is poking you and I'm running to hide. And then I realize that this is, I can say, access a universal safe space, because we're all connected to it.

I've always been interested in the bathroom, like. I mean, I built the bathroom piece. Yes. Right. 2017. Yeah. And that was for levity like this. This is hilarious. I conducted, the violin score that went along with it, and you put it on my headphones while you use the bathroom with a stranger, and you really were able to use the bathroom with the stranger or with your best friend or something.

And so, yeah. So these were just parts of those moments that I depicted in all the pieces in the show. That's why it's called the Bathroom Series. Yeah, but the show title is May Cause Side Effects. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, I understand the intimacy of the bathroom. I certainly have gone and locked myself in the bathroom to have a cry or something.

Oh, yeah. Or, you know, just a moment of peace when there's a lot of people. So it's totally relatable. But that's just. Wow. Because it's. I knew I wanted to do this painting. Yeah, I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't know how. Yeah. And then like I said, I had all these pill jars just lined up.

I was like, let's spit into this jar. Let's see how this can work. Okay, let me grind up these other, like this vibrant pink yellow thing. Make me okay, let's figure out how to actually translate that into this. And then even then when I would paint with it it would get darker. Oh. So then I would have to stop on an area and then come back two days later to see how much darker it got.

So as I was beginning to paint, I. Okay, well I have to wait now. Yeah, yeah. So do you, I have to ask from you said you became a scientist. So were you, like, writing all these findings down like this? Paint turns this color in two days or something like that, or. I'm obsessed with that. No, no, it's all in your memory.

All in my mind. It works better that way. Okay? It just it has more of a flow because it's like. It's like, behind your mom's back in the kitchen. You know what I'm saying? She's like, oh, just put some of this in some of this. Some of this. You're just like, okay. And then it doesn't taste the same.

No, it never does. She's got you. She's got a skilled hand. Yes, absolutely. I know I'm teaching my daughters every now and then to, to cook. And they're like, how much? I'm like, I don't know. Just sprinkle it like there's follow me record of videos. It's 2025. There's a camera on your phone. Back in my day, we had digital cameras back in my days, we didn't have that at all.

No. We had. What is that? Super eight? Yes. Super eight. Wow. No. So that's. So you said you recorded the score for your bathroom piece back in 2017? Yeah. Does that mean you have musical training as well? I wouldn't say I don't have musical training. I'm just musically inclined. Okay. So I'm. I'm very good. Curating and understanding how things can be put together.

Okay. So from a young age, of course, I loved I love music, I loved music, it any kind of anything. It's just that there was a time and a place. Yeah, yeah. No, I was looking at. Yeah, I was actually this morning I was even watching your video for the, the house at Coney Island. Yes. At that.

Looks like it's such a totally chill, cool time. I wish I could have been there, but I saw you. It looked like you were mixing something, maybe on the computer. And then there was a little rapping I saw in that video. Yes. So that's, the residency program. I started. Tell me about that Coney Island. So, like I said, I was alone, and it also kind of struck the waves.

Grandma's house in Coney Island. Yes. Okay. That's. I'm connecting the dots. Okay. And so I kind of thought about it in two ways. One, I wish I had a space like this that I can just go to and create when I was younger. So I wanted to give that to the people. But also, let's just put everybody in a room.

Things just come together so much more naturally when you talk with someone. Yeah, no, absolutely. There was a girl that wanted to screenprint, didn't know how, but then there's someone there that owns a screen printing shop. Oh, so you're having a conversation. All right, just come into the studio, pick two days, it'll be for free. Don't worry. And I'll show you how to do these things.

Oh. That's awesome. So, like, sessions can last the whole weekend. And, you know, there'll be a tap dancer in the back, another person writing their score over there in the corner. I'll be painting, and then they'll be like, it's right there with your painting in one of those in the video. Yeah. And they'll be making music and then.

All right, look, you made some beats. I'll sing. Let's. Let's go. We're singing now, and it just, you know, every two weeks we'll take a weekend and then just create. Oh, I love that. Now there's a I think it's a wonderful way to make to create community. Yes. Yeah. I mean there's so much online community these days and for which I'm grateful for 100%, you know, like I teach on zoom all the time now I have community.

We meet on zoom, and that's great too, because you can be all over the world and you can be together in that one online space, but nothing beats being in person with people. Absolutely. Yeah. And I didn't have that too when I was fixing that place. Yeah, yeah, I had no one to just interface with. So everything is, you know, just resting within me.

Yeah. It's it's so cathartic when you can just say a sentence or like explain an idea and you just get instant feedback. Yeah. Which is like a big part of why I also facilitate. All over the place, why I love curating. I've always curated but now it's okay, let's make this more. So then after, you know I'm stabilized, I've become a new person after getting epilepsy.

Okay. How can I give back and give other artists the opportunities that I wish I had when I was younger? Let's make art. Come on, let's curate an art show. Great. Let's. While we're curating an art show, let's have a tattoo artist, a burlesque dancer, and also some food vendors. Let's put it all together. Got to have food.

What? The food was so good. Oh, man. She's a she's a Thai chef. Oh, wow. Beautiful. So do you do this Coney Island residency regularly? Yes. And how does one sign up for your Coney Island residency? A lot of people usually just message me. I'll always kind of drop on my stories on my main account. Just. We have a decision between these two dates.

What works best for everyone. And then people show up. But you know, it's it's like a party. Yeah. 20 people want to come ten show up which I'm not mad about. Like I'm not mad about. So what's is there a limit like you have. You can't have more than 20. Or is there, some kind of parameters.

The parameters parameter is a hard word parameter. Parameters, a hard word because I don't mind having plenty of people in the space, because I'm very fortunate that it's a big space. Like people have huge paintings bigger than mine that are set up there. Oh how cool. Which is. No it's lovely. It's. Yeah. Oh nice. Parameters just it's not a forced you have to make while you're here.

Yeah. It's if anything just be open, be receptive, be willing to communicate. Because you know, some people just come just to enjoy the community. Yeah. And then they meet someone and then it's oh you're doing a poetry event. I'd love to come. Yes. That's so cool. That's what you want. Well and so how like are they still going on like now in the winter as well.

Oh yeah. Oh okay. We're, we're going to take a break though because you know holiday season I don't want nobody in my house.

I'm trying to be there alone. You know something? Okay. Okay. But yeah, well, we'll start it back up next year. Very cool. No snow on the beaches. Divine. Is it, I guess? Yeah. Now, I went to, I was in Cape Cod in February. There was no snow on the beach, but the beach in the cold winter wind is really something.

And it is beautiful. Max. You. Yes. And it's Max. You. It's like any kind of ailment. What's wrong with you? Just breathe some fresh air. Right?

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I am tempted to take you back to the toilets, but not the Cooper Union toilets. Tell me about your house thing. Performance. Oh, interaction in Dumbo. Tell me all about that. That was beautiful. Oh, my God. So, there's, a program called the six foot platform, and I was accepted into it, and I got a grant from the Brooklyn Arts Council, and I'd always wanted to bring this project back, but this time I had my medical gaze on it.

You know, I'm an artist with epilepsy. I am making works with pills. How can we put this on the stage? And one of the biggest tourist hotspots in New York.

I had to rebuild it. So demolished the other one back in 2017. Which is why this project is called Face to Face Toilets Revisited and it the actual, project that was presented was it began with me wearing my medical gown, sitting alone on one of the toilets and the other one was left open.

But on the marquee it was listed as anyone can come up at any time. And, you know, the first project also had that bit of levity too, because it's it's fucking hilarious. There's two toilets sitting here, but in the middle of a street in Brooklyn with tourists passing by. Lovely, lovely. And they're all going on the in New York.

But. Right. If I would be saying that. But then, you know, it's people are laughing and they're seeing the just absurdity of it, but then they see me in a medical gown. But then if you chose to read about the project, you understood a different depth of it. Yeah, it's still hilarious, but it's also now talking about the hospital.

It's talking about medical independence. It's talking about what I go through that you can't see, that you can't see. This is something that I'm going to carry for the rest of my life. And a lot of people also go through that as well. So it's, again, me sitting down with my medical gown by myself. And people came up and sat and we interacted.

They asked me, yeah, what's going on here? And it was beautiful to actually just have that moment. And then later the second act, I'll call it was then, having another person getting ready for a night out. So then they're taking up the other toilet seat and putting on makeup. Getting. So did you provide like the makeup and everything.

Yeah. Oh cool. What do you mean why not. Well I don't know. You don't have a. Here's a Sephora gift card. Let's go. Go home. Do what you will. So again, these are passers by that you're inviting. Oh, no, not a makeup. This one was an actual performer. Oh, this was not God. Okay, I asked whether you supplied makeup or not.

Okay, I didn't understand that. Okay. And then it was, you know, me holding the mirror while they're putting on their eyeliner. They're putting on a face mask. We're playing music now. It's getting a little bit more livelier. And this is to kind of emulate my steps to get out of my initial kind of diagnosis, because I had to learn to become something new.

Yeah. And then slowly had to get out of that from the bathroom still. And then I eventually get off stage and then it's just you see this one person just getting ready. They're, they're dancing, they're putting on makeup. They're trying on their clothes looking at you know, the clothes that they're wearing. They have a what's it called when you get out of the shower a robe, a robe.

And then again people are coming up. I'm like, what are you doing? Oh, you look good. You missed the spot. You know, blended in a little by the chin. And everyone always forgets the blended in by the chair. You know, you got to bring it down a little bit or else the colors don't look right. And then it's still beautiful because people are coming up.

They're just taking you up on toilet now. And people are still coming up and interacting and it's beautiful. I was it was really beautiful to sit back and just witnessed this. So you got to be the observer. Yeah. Yeah. And then so then the third act of it was we had a real therapist come up and they, I gave them a paddle that said free and then the other side.

So therapists, they would swivel it around and it was popular that we had, I think the most one of the most interactions from that. So, you know, people said free therapy, what there was like at least 15 people that came up here to like set a timer. He's like, all right, you got seven minutes, seven minutes. We talking about it.

You got next with a line. Yeah. To get I believe it. Yeah. Oh, God. And then, the fourth act was me. Now, without my medical gown in regular clothing, you know, being myself, I'm smiling. I'm active. Like, the first act was. No smile on my face, I am makeup. I am back in that initial hospital bathroom where it feels hopeless, even though, you know, they're bringing you hope.

Yeah, like I'm there in the hospital to get help, but also at the same time, you're miserable. Another ten minutes of this. I'm so excited. So excited for this meal. About to eat. Jesus. So that was a really special performance. How long was that performance? That was all day. Oh, the in Brooklyn. So you had the whole day that you broke into four acts?

Basically. Yeah. It was I think maybe 6 or 7 hours. Wow. And then again, like right behind me is the view is that the Brooklyn Bridge or the Baton Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge. And that's like the titular spot. Yes. Where you go and edit your photo. Yes. So then there's hundreds of people just walking by the whole time.

Yeah. Some people are just walking by and then they burst out laughing like, this makes no sense. Oh. And then other people are, you know, they're staying for the chat. They're like, let me get up on stage and ask what is even going on. Yeah. Like, why? Why are you here? Right? Why is this here? And it was just so powerful to me because it's still like the first project from 2017, but it has so much more importance now because of who I am now.

Right? Oh that's awesome. I kind of wish I was there to walk by and see you. It was a hoot and a holler.

So I wrote down that you also have an interdisciplinary retreat called The Alchemy of the arrow. Wow, wow. That that was a previous event that I had put together with, multiple other collaborators.

There was Leah O'Donnell. O'Connell. There was Leah. She's fantastic. And she does really amazing work and coaching and facilitation to help people kind of regulate and find their new normal. Also, I know this is also post-Covid. Yes, yes, this is all recently. That was last year. And there's so much more I can say about her. She's truly amazing cheeses.

There was Pammy, who is also a facilitator. There was Queering Existentialism, which is a group that I've done frequent collaborations with, all about decolonizing, their decolonizing work and so much more to so much more. All these people are incredible. And we decided that we wanted to do a retreat upstate and give back to the people. So we reached out to our networks, and then we also had an open call out to get different facilitators to come from a cuisine kind of ceremonial.

Oh, cool. Yeah. No. And we had maybe, I think 20 facilitators. We had a poetry activation. I did a burning ritual. Oh, wow. Just everything to kind of center yourself and to come back down. And let's make the importance of this to help individuals find themselves. There's so much more I can say about each facilitator and each coordinator of the event, because they're all such beautiful spirits.

Is that something you're going to repeat again? Oh, yeah. Yeah, next year for sure. Oh that's great. Next year.

It was an amazing time and it was so restorative and healing, and it felt good to do that with other beautiful people whose goal is to help. Yeah, is to help the community and be earnest with it. There's a big problem sometimes with people that don't practice what they preach.

Yes, I've found recently. So that's another direction I'm in right now. I've been in. I did a, anger and rage workshop. Oh. Where we used drawing as an outlet, but also learn practices with another collaborator. That was Queering Again.

Very cool. So what, you said you're doing something called Zona Moco in Mexico next year. Tell me about that. Yes, yes. So that's working with Revolu Gallery, which is where we are now in the new intimate space that we created. And this is the first show in the space to kick it off as well.

But who better to to kick it off with than me? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So this is gallery at 811. So now that I've been working with this gallery more, we are going to Mexico City for, I believe, 4 or 5 months. Oh, wow. And we're doing some incredible shows there. So Zona Moco in Mexico City is like the it's very similar to the Biennale.

Like that just happened in Miami.

first show is on February 3rd. Okay, it's solo shows with and, and an artist called nigiri.

So get it last time. I'll give it to you, though. It's okay. And the other one is Madi Sterling. Okay. So is there a website for this? Yes. Okay. So that all the names would be on there. It's on the gallery website Revolut gallery.com okay. And yeah, just again why I love working with this gallery is because they share my kind of outlook.

Let's help these artists. Let's mean what we say. I've had a lot of experience dealing with galleries and speaking with them. And it's all this double talk and fast run around. And I'm sure you've interacted with and false promises, broken promises. How can we take control of you without actually giving you anything? Yeah, yeah. But why? I really enjoy working with the gallery director, Allicette Torres is because she's one of the few people that I've met.

That means what she says. We are here to help artists. We are not here to confuse lots again like me. Give them the things that I wish I had when I was younger. That's wonderful. And this is a possibility. This is real. But again, like with Cooper, it's hard to get in, but it's harder to stay in.

Yeah, because you got to keep up and you got to keep doing the work. So we'll be down there doing some amazing shows the following month. Afterwards is the godfather of graffiti, Coco one for for like he's he's credited with using stencils first. Oh cool. And the graffiti scene in New York. But he's a letter writer, let's say correctly.

Okay. He's a letter writer. Then afterwards, we have another artist named Sofia Castellanos, and then we are also doing our residency program as well down there. So we're also hosting a residency as well. So is that an open call for. Yes it is. Oh it's live now. It's like oh great, I'll put up a link. And again we also now have a magazine.

Oh, there's a magazine that we are also accepting open calls for. Oh we if we're if we're helping let's mean it. Yeah. But yeah like the residency, we're covering your flight. You're getting the studio space. So much of it is covered for you. So that the only thing you have to do when you get there is create. That's awesome.

And you have to just mean it. Yeah. Just create and mean it. Let's take you to another place. Let's get rid of whatever your block is. Because I even find for myself I enjoy traveling. When I go somewhere else I drop whatever my notions have been. Yeah. You can't take it all with you. Yeah. I'm not home.

You're in a different place. So so healthy. Yeah. It's so restorative again. It's it's beautiful. Yeah.

let's take it back to you. So this exhibit is up until when closing is on December 15th.

Okay. So unfortunately, before this, the closing will happen before this episode is out. But how so? All the paintings in here are with medication? Yes. How many paintings you have? We have to. Seven. Seven paintings. That's just an exhibit. Yes. And do you have more? Of course, of course. And are you continuing the planning of course. Yes, absolutely.

Wow. I'm working on two, three new works right now. Okay, but I did forget to mention the importance of the material I use. All the paintings are on wood. Oh, okay. All of them are on wood. I do not use canvas or glass. Yes, I saw that one in a glass in an actual window frame. That's very cool.

From Cooper Union. Over 100 years. But that window frame is older than us combined. Yeah. And when they were doing the renovations they were throwing a bunch of stuff in the dumpster. And I hopped in there. One time I was like this is history. Yeah. No. Yeah. That's been there through so much. Right. And I've held on to it since like 2015 and only recently did the painting on it, I love that, no, I think it's renovations.

There's especially renovations of old beautiful homes or buildings. I it drives me crazy when they throw that stuff out. Like I understand the need to modernize things. Of course, like we do need good heating, Hvac. Yeah. Hundred percent. Yes. Good. Good lighting and all of that at the same time. Like, why do you put a carpet down on that teakwood floor?

Yes. Why? Makes no sense to me. Yeah. No, my parents, had a house in Queens. They. And it was a Tudor style home. But when they bought it, not only was it divided into two apartments, but like all the beautiful wood, oak wood floors were covered up, like I remember when we first came, that's what we were doing.

It was just breaking down walls and ripping up carpet, carpets and and all the original molding. It was all there it was to cover it up. Oh my God, I don't understand people like I understand modernization technologically wise. Like we could get rid of that all ass oven on everything. Like we could do that. We can keep the original icebox and put it in the basement for, like, the children.

Yes. As memorabilia. Yes, yes. But yeah. No. Oh, but back to this. Okay. So on wood. Oh and now I see it's plywood. I see the wood edge. Okay. And I mean, it's, it's emblematic of my security. This painting style would not work on a canvas. Oh, okay. At all. It's supposed to be myself again. Because it's resilient.

It's hard if if I'm using the same techniques to paint with is a palette knife. A brush with such a rough surface, I'd kill the canvas, right? Right. I would go through it in an instant. But just like me, it's still strong. It's still holding up while still all the pills are coursing through it. I love that.

Oh, so these two. And there will be. There will be more video. Portraits of women. Are you painting? Are these women that you know? Yes. I get all the photography. Oh, okay. Oh. So it's everything. Okay, so you take the photograph and then paint from the photograph? Yes. Got it. Okay.

That is, this one is a NyQuil background. That is a DayQuil background. How appropriate. That took a month to dry the DayQuil, the NyQuil, dry it overnight. Wow. The DayQuil stayed wet for, like, 30 days. Wow. That's crazy. Made no sense. None. None. I think you need to write, like, an article on all your experiments and put in, like, interesting notes like that.

The DayQuil I'm working, I'm doing, I'm doing new experiments now with inhalers. Someone gave me a bag of inhalers. So I've been using the fluid, with different pills to see how the reaction works. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And I'm doing a Xanax, toilet painting as well. Okay. That one, that pill is tricky. That pill is tricky.

What's what's tricky about it? It's now coming out how I thought it would using some of these colors that I don't think ever. It's white. It's white. But then now using no more spit. Right. No more spitting. Good. No more science. It's it's drawing this almost flaky gray, Yeah. So, so you're showing it up and you're putting some kind of a medium into it, like an oil paint medium?

An oil paint medium or also, using a lot of.

the the materials that you use to actually make oil paint the fixative that are inside of it. So I'm using those. Okay. To how you make oil paint. I'm using the same things to make with the crushed up medication. Yeah. Got it. So and then so it's not it's not giving you the color that you want.

You thought it would be white. Yeah. It's weird It's weird. Well there's probably some kind of chemical reaction happening. Yeah. Yeah. Which is now my mom's a nurse. I'm asking her 20 questions. She's like, I can't help you make paint. I can't do that for you. I'm like, but you understand the chemical breakdown. She's just like, yeah, but that doesn't make like I'm not a painter.

At Christmas, Thanksgiving dinner, she's like, can you just help me pull this out? Oh, I love this. Your dad is a plumber's helping you with your art, and your mom is a nurse is helping you with your art. Gestures. She she has. She has all the interest, but she's like, why are you asking me this? Now? What?

It's all about the timing. I'm killing this ham out. Yeah, I called you over here to just lift this. Yes. Timing is important. Yes, Lord. So what else are you working on right now? The toilet, I, my friend. Okay. Wait. Is it a painting on the toilet? Painting? Okay. This one is a painting again. Would. I'm working on another wooden series from, a moment that I've always had in the back of my mind.

Like. Like the bathroom really is, like, my best incubator for ideas. I'll keep that one. Okay. I'll keep that one to myself. Okay. That one's got to be the most difficult of them all. I can feel it already. Okay. The last one. I have these large pieces of glass, like. They're huge. They're about my height. Oh, wow.

And my friend got them from the yacht club when they were closing down, so I'm now working on a triptych as well. Oh, cool. Again on glass. Oh, is it framed glass? Yes. Okay. It was again one of their windows. Oh, cool. They were throwing a bunch of stuff out and they're like, I know you like trash. So, like, there you go.

I know you like glass from the garden. It's, Oh, it's so great. Oh. Do you have any exhibits lined up in, in, other than Mexico? No, not right now. Until, I believe, August or June. Okay, so. But more things are always brewing. Oh, I forgot to mention what? We have an online show up right now that I curated.

Oh, excellent. Yes. Oh my gosh. So you'll have to give me the link. I'll make sure to put it kids memory. This one is called Fragmentation of identity. Okay. And this was a global open call that we did. Oh wow. So we got works from every continent. And it's it really it came to me now more than ever.

And what's happening in the world but also in the United States is where my perspective originally stemmed from. How disjointed everything is. But more than that how your personality like an example, I like to use is if you were in the military, you retired, you left the military, you always have that badge of I was in the military.

That's how I represent myself. That's who I am. But now something happened to you that changes that image. So do you still use that badge if I was in the military or am I now working through this new disability that I have this new change that I have. It's not just a disability. So I wanted to leave that American perspective.

And I thought it'd be so beautiful to give that to the rest of the world and ask them, how is this change? How does this represent you? Whether it be through your divergence, through your queerness, through your level of acceptance? And we got such a beautiful array of work and it's in a 3D gallery that's up and that closes on January 20th.

Okay. This episode will be out before that. Awesome. So everyone will get to see. It's

thank you so much for this. Thank you. This is great. Yeah.

This podcast was created, produced and edited by me, Natalya Khorover. Theme music by RC Guida. To find out more about me go to Art by Natalya.com, to find out about my community go to Repurposer Collective.com and to learn with me check out all my offerings at EcoLoop Dot Art. Thank you for listening.