Conversation with Nathalie Kalbach

Please enjoy my conversation with Nat Kalbach. Nathalie is a self-taught mixed media artist, writer, and advocate for historic preservation, whose vibrant works explore urban subject matter through a fusion of paint mediums and collage materials. Her unconventional path into the art world began as a sanctuary from her former role as a paralegal, where she discovered the transformative power of art as a means of storytelling and personal expression.

Nat finds inspiration in the ever-changing dynamics of city life, particularly in the urban subject matter that surrounds her. She connects deeply with the spaces she lives in by not only exploring the visual aspects but also by researching the history and the stories that unfold within the buildings and structures that populate the cityscape. 

https://www.natkalbach.com/ 

​​https://www.instagram.com/natkalbach/ 

https://natkalbach.substack.com/ 

https://www.natkalbach.com/podcast 

Plant based acrylic paint https://www.placrylic.com/home

Liquitex bio-based acrylic paint https://www.liquitex.com/

Jimmy Leslie, Nat’s mentor https://jimmyleslieart.com/

Artful Adventures in Mixed Media https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/633752/artful-adventures-in-mixed-media-by-nathalie-kalbach/ 

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to SALVAGE, a podcast for conversations with artists about the repurposed materials they use in their art practice.

Please enjoy my conversation with Nathalie Kalbach. Nat is a self-taught mixed media artist, writer and advocate for historic preservation, whose vibrant works explore urban subject matter through a fusion of paint mediums and collage materials. Her unconventional path into the art world began as a sanctuary from her former role as a paralegal,

where she discovered the transformative power of art as a means of storytelling and personal expression.

She says she finds inspiration in the ever changing dynamics of city life, particularly in the urban subject matter that surrounds her and that connects deeply with the spaces she lives in. By not only exploring visual aspects, but also by researching the history and the stories that unfold within the buildings and structures that populate the cityscape.

thank you so much for being here. And that, Oh, gosh, it's been so long since we talked.

Right. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited that you invited me. And, you know, I'm an admirer of your artwork. And actually, I would call myself a collector of your artwork.

Yes. I thank you for your pieces. Yes. I think you can definitely call yourself a collector, but I think the last time we spoke

via zoom anyways because I think we've texted since then, you were the one interviewing me. That's true, that's true. I think for, Creative Jumpstart. I think the last time I, did that, which was an online collaborative, workshop with, for other artists, and I used to do for ten years every generally to jumpstarted everyone's, creativity and you have been, a participant for several years.

Yeah. So, I know that you, I usually you interviewed, a bigger slew of the artists, for this. And that is probably the last time we saw each other in person talking on zoom, I think so, I think so, Yeah, that was such an amazing undertaking that you did. And to have done it for ten years is really requires quite a bit of stamina.

Yes, I was it was a lot of fun and I do miss parts of it. I do miss the, collaboration with the artist. I do miss the interaction during January, which I. It's my least favorite month. That is the least favorite month of the year. That's it. So I do miss the interaction with all those wonderful students.

We had, sometimes a thousand students or more. So it was really wonderful. But I do not miss any of the administrative work, since I was basically by myself with the help of, a system that I had for the scan. That was a lot of work. So, don't miss that and have way more time for artwork.

Oh, yeah, I bet you do. Well, I am honored to have been asked to participate in that. It was really fun. And I thoroughly enjoyed it, but, so let me ask you, were you an artist as a kid?

No. I mean, I like to I like to do little things like, you know, crafting, like little, I loved, like, shoe boxes and making, little, like, collecting, wallpaper and, you know, carpet and made, like, little bedrooms or kitchen for, like, I wasn't really a doll.

Like, I didn't really play with dolls in the in the, you know, like, usual. It was more like, oh, she needs a living space. You know, you were building environments. Yes, she needs an environment. So it's definitely, definitely interested in that. I love to draw and paint. When I had a very, very good, and very young art, art school teacher, he was actually not really yet a teacher.

I think he was, like, starting out. But he took over our art class, in what would be the equivalent of our high school, in Germany. And I was like, oh, like, he was very nurturing. He did things like, let's just like, have a roll of resin paper and you all draw, like, paint to eyes over and over and over and different colors, you know?

And it was super fun. It was really,

students. And then I thought, oh, artist. Cool. I think I like this. I might want to pursue that. And then we had a new, older teacher after that, and she had us draw a little pencil case, our own pencil case. And I was like, I never sketch before.

And I thought, oh, this is not too bad. It doesn't look great. But, you know, I can I can see the resemblance and she stepped behind me and she said, you know, Nathalie, I think art is not your thing. Like, I don't think you have real talent for that. And so that's so awesome. Oh, oh my God. I was like, oh, she must know.

You know, she's an art teacher. So I was like, well, I guess I don't have talent. And so I did the next, next, logical thing and, and went to law school, so oh my god. Wow. That's a pivot. I'm so sorry that you had such a horrible experience with an art teacher. Yeah. So I wouldn't say that I was, I was definitely creative, but I wasn't really, like, thinking about art, you know, as a concept or I, I was a, I was interested in many different things crafting, painting.

But I was mostly interested in storytelling and photography. My family had a, a huge amount of photos, family photos, and would, tell a lot of stories, and we would miss a lot. So, my mother was a, my father died when I was very young. Actually, a baby, so I never got to know him, but my mom was a, single mom.

And so we actually moved a lot, in Germany. And so, every time I was in a new environment, I would, like, look at the environment and, you know, buildings and I would make up stories and, so I wasn't an artist in a way, but I loved, like, storytelling and, imagining, like, what happened in this building.

Or I would sit in the subway and would think about all the stories that are in this one little subway wagon, you know, like, what are these people are like, what are they? Lives are was before there was a movie about this like encounter and and and the subway and I was the original. No kidding. But, you know, that totally makes sense because now you are restoring historic buildings like, this is your, your, your second home that you're restoring now.

Right? And you're on the preservation committee or something like that in the town. Yeah. I was a board member of the, Jersey City Landmarks Conservancy, and I have a certificate in historic preservation from NYU. And we have an 1890s Victorian house, which we are, restoring, which some people think is crazy. And maybe we are.

I think you have to be a certain kind of crazy. It's, you know, it's the crazy is in different categories. That's true. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting because, for the longest time, I didn't really, even though I was painting, always, when I started painting, which was like a little bit different of how we got to know, like, I had these kind of.

it was just a glitch, so I need to. I'm not sure where we stopped, but if you don't mind, how how did you you you went to law school, and then you became a paralegal, is that right? Yeah. I was a paralegal for many years, and, you know, 13 and one office and seven and an hour, and.

But then you became an artist. How did that happen? How did that transition happen? Yeah, that's a weird story

I, so I was grew up I grew up in Germany. I lived in Germany 2014. But I met my now husband, in 99. And then we married, in 2004. We lived in Germany, and I was thinking about something, what I could do with my wedding pictures. And he was like, I don't know much about it, but there's this thing we call scrapbooking in America, and maybe you want to look into that and so I didn't like the, the, the way how they used to do this, you know, like kind of pictures.

It's I'm not saying this is terrible. I'm just saying for me, it was a kind of like, I, I made my own thing, and I started, like, painting and sewing and and doing embroidery and just trying different things with the photos and painting on photos. And they later called that mixed media or scrapbooking before they were like very, stringent and how, what you could use and were like very mad at people.

There were other people like me who were a little bit more creative in their pursuit of scrapbooking. But anyway, it also started at the same time to be a thing in Europe. And, and so people were reaching out to me. I was writing about that because I thought it was so interesting that I, that this, combining something that's crafty with photos, I found the whole, the whole procedure very, very interesting.

Where were you writing about it? I was writing about, like, what I discovered. Like how the blog trying new techniques on a blog, very, very old, like, you know, 20, 20 plus years ago, blog. And so, that's how people started, like discovering me. And then they were like, asking if I would teach. And then this whole thing morphed into, like, our journal and painting and, so but the very first paintings I did were like kind of word transfer photo transfers, which I painted over in Hamburg.

And they were all buildings that were changed in, in Hamburg, Germany, like one was an old model water tower which was turned into, a four star hotel. The other one was a building that was demolished that, you know, that was in my neighborhood. So these were the things that I would do that were not in a book with, you know, the typical scrapbooking saying.

Yes. So I kept these things very separated. So one was like painting urban buildings or, you know, whatever techniques I would use in my other endeavors, I would use that on canvas to, and then the teaching arts and crafts and, working with arts and crafts manufacturers and, going and teaching retreats and doing online workshops. And you were still being a paralegal at this time for many years, I was a yes, I was a paralegal.

And then, right. That was the question. Sorry. You asked how it came about. Yes. So then then I started to be invited all like it started in Europe. And then I would get invited to, you know, Australia, America, Israel. I would travel all over the world. And at some point I was like, you know, like. So we had six weeks.

I had six weeks of vacation. I would use up all my vacation time to actually just travel and teach workshops. And, you know, it was pretty fun and, and amazing. Opportunity. But also my work was very, very heavy. We were an activist, law office. We would do a lot of asylum cases. World War reparation cases.

And so it was amazing work and a lot. I learned a lot, but it was also very stressful and sad at times. So it was a great outlet. But at some point I was like, well, maybe there is an opportunity to to do just teaching, as an art, as an artist full time. And I decided to do this for three years and give it away all and see how that goes.

And that went actually very well. So, you know, there's still like this paralegal, very organized person in me. I was like, this needs to kind of work like, and it did. And then, my husband and I decided to move back or for him back to the States and, and. Yeah, I, I wouldn't have been able to do anything, really with my paralegal or law degree here without like, you know, and then I was also a little bit different.

Yeah. Yeah. At different certifications and things like that. Right. And it's a different law model. And so, so I, I dive even more into it. And so I did this for many years, did a lot of like online teaching, traveling around. I was, I did a lot of licensee designs for stencil manufacturers, rubber stamp and foam stamp manufacturers, the sectors I wrote a column for on magazine called Somerset Memories, which was called Natalie Studio.

And so and then did the online workshop like the one that we, worked on together. But I never really, connected the other art, the real hard work, which sounds weird, but I never really connect. Like, I always had a real, like a little bit of a problem on how to actually do that. Or maybe it was also, I don't know, a way of a cop out to because the other one was maybe the easier path and making a living as an artist than, painting and pursuing that way.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and at some point you started using antique ledgers for your artwork. Yeah. So this is me connecting it to the reason for this podcast is because we are this is a podcast talking about repurposed media. And I, like you, use it. So that's I want to I want to tease that out of you. Yes.

How did that come about? Yeah. I've always been interested in antiques or old books. I love old books. But I found this old lecture, which was, which is, I think an 18, definitely an 1840s legend has, like, writing and fraud, like, probably half of the. It's gigantic. I mean, it's it's huge. It's a library called me.

How how big is it? Don't ask me in inches, but it's like big. It's big. Yeah. I think I remember seeing you posting pictures of it on Instagram or something. Probably like 17in tall. You know, like, it's a big, heavy book and it's from the 1840s. I'm not quite sure it says word something on the outside, so I, I think it is a word collection.

Text collection, book. And I thought it would be cool to really repurpose that. I thought about I thought often about how to repurpose architectural salvage for my artwork. I'm still struggling with the there are several reasons why I struggle with it. Oftentimes when I see repurposed art like salvage material, it, it's very, removed from what actually is painted on it or for what it's used the subject matter, for me then has not really, connection and I don't I, I want this to be kind of a natural or like it, it has to somehow connect for me.

What kind of architectural salvage are you talking about? Like, you know, sometimes you see people using old windows or, color or again, for example, I love what Swan does with architectural, oh. So yeah, with like doors and and this not makes all sense to me how she uses it. But then you might like, be like, oh, if I just paint on top of the window, does that just like I don't want it to look cheesy.

I also don't want it to be too much in your face. So the letter was a good like, start to explore this idea of repurposing old material, without overwriting or razing actual the history of that, because you're still seeing the layers and the writings and everything that is in the letter. And, and that made sense to me in terms of why I'm interested in all building and also connects to why I'm interested in, historic preservation.

It's not about freezing something and time. It's about, you know, like, how do we redefine this and how do we reuse that? It's it's not just an nostalgic thing. So, yeah, the letter is, is like a really fun project for me where kind of like, try the paint. Sometimes I paint the same building that I did on canvas after the fact.

Also into the can, into the ledger. As a as a thing of like, like Edward Hopper would like, you know, would like, he had a ledger where he would just without writing and he would just sketch in his paintings, and then write what they were, how big they were. And, you know, like, it was like a catalog.

But so it's kind of like a catalog, but sometimes I also do it before or I actually finished the painting on it. So it's a collection of, yeah, what I saw and what I paint it to. And do you prepare the pages of the ledger in any way? No, I'm not that precious. Are they sturdy enough, though?

I don't use too wet other, medium in there. Sometimes I spray paint a, a layer before, so I'd kind of like, with acrylic paint. Oh. So kind of kind of similar. So, Yeah. But I do not really. I mean, I try to be precious, but, I'm, I'm also, like, not too precious. Right?

Right. Yeah. So there's writing in the ledger, and I assuming there's all sorts of lines and columns and stuff. So that's the goes through the most of your painting, right. Yeah. Oh we're like in the background. Yeah. Yeah. I find I find that fascinating. And that's what I like, find fascinating. That's why I like texture on my canvases as well.

And that's why I'm thinking about architectural salvage. I want this not to be plastered over. I want the parchment patina or whatever is there to to come through. Yeah. And when you. So how many ledgers do you have now? I haven't sold the like the main one. Because it's it's huge. You know. How many, how many pages?

I think this is like 700 pages. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's going to be like a lot of the city if I would like. Yeah, that will take some time. But I do have probably like 1012 ledgers and I use them, I use one for an art journal, I use one for pattern making. So I, I collect them, I go around and I look at them, some I just look at them, but, yeah, people, people are sometimes like, really, astonished or will say, why?

Why would you do this to, you know, an old ledger. But the thing is, like, what else are you going to do with that? Right. It's not, I guess it's not a precious historical artifact. It was just might be, I don't know. I don't think so, though. Right. I think that if it was someone famous or something like that, then that would be in a museum.

But this is something you just found in a vintage shop, right? Exactly. Yeah. They have become very, popular with people just to use the paper. So it's really hard to come by them in an intact form. And, and also affordable. It used to be much cheaper. But they, they have to be, especially when there's a lot of writing in there that's become very expensive, actually.

So, yeah. Like, I have several friends that are, that are in the, like, kind of antiquing vintage, business. And I have them look out and then once in a while they will send me a picture and say, is that something that you would, you would like to have? And and then I say, yeah, get this right now.

Nice to have friends in the right places. Yes. Wow. And how do you display your paintings in a ledger? Like if I know you had an exhibit not too long ago, and I think, oh, yeah. Yes. You did have a ledger in that exhibit. How did you display it? Well, that one is a tougher one. So, of course, that was in the museum of, of his history of Jersey City Museum.

And so that was mainly about my other paintings. But the, my curator, she was very she lost that ledger. And actually the ledger was the entrance to the museum because the museum's director, I had her, the Jersey city Art and studio tour during the pandemic was online, and I actually, showed my ledger online and did a walking tour, kind of like online.

Also, as a part of that of the eight minutes that I had to show. I remember seeing this. You had like pictures of the of buildings that you have painted in Jersey city and, and maps and stuff like that. Right. So I put the paintings on the ledger onto the map of Jersey city so that people could follow where they are and actually kind of, see that.

And he, he remembered that, the director, and he wanted to he wanted to have me for an exhibition in the museum. And so the ledger had to be in the museum, but you basically could only show two patrons in a display case, because if you would handle it with too many people, that that is a problem, like, it's not possible.

So that's a challenge. That's hard. I haven't solved that problem yet. I think it really is about. Yeah. And, but there's something that gets lost of the totality and just seeing, right, the writing and everything in the ledger. In person, of course, it's just in a glass case, and you can just look at it. Yeah, yeah, somebody has to make an appointment to visit your studio, and then put on white gloves and look through it with white gloves.

Yes, I have done some prints. Because people are really, really, there is something that connects them to the, to the way how the painting looks. And, in this ledger. So I've done some prints and some of those. So you people and you scan the pages and then. Yes. Yeah, some people were like, do you want to sell the ledger?

I don't I mean it's not full. It's not possible. You're not finished yet and I'm not finished. I don't know if I will ever be finished on this side. So yeah, that is that is a connection to repurposing, materials, but I also use collage materials. So on pictures and pieces in magazines to a lot of magazines that you painted.

I remember in the Art Journal. Yeah. My canvases I use, you know, like old letters or old, writing and incorporate that into the, artwork, if it makes sense. If it if it belongs there or if I feel it belongs there. Right. Oh, of course, because you are the artist. Of course I. And so are you currently collecting any kind of salvage material for future artworks?

Yeah, I do, I do have a couple of tin, for tin, ceiling pieces. Oh, the the ceiling tiles. Yeah, right. That is a little tough, though, because, I tested them first for that. And, of course, that's a that's a that's an issue, with all salvaged material. It's an issue to really think about that.

So what do you do if you. So those are tin and they have lead in them. Can you see paint. Yeah. You would have to see them lead paint. That's what it is. Yeah. So I do love how they look in terms of the dangerous part is that the paint peels off. Yeah. That's what looks cool because you have, you have these areas where the paint is, you know, peeling off.

And so that shows some of the layers I'm interested in my artwork and all of my, of the materials have surfaces and know layers because they represent the layers of history. And then you put something my, my paintings are very colorful and very different from the reality when I paint my buildings, but that's the juxtaposition that I really like about that.

That old and new was not frozen in time. And so I want to make sure that you can see the background, but I have to really still figure out how I can seal it in a way that it's not like shiny or weird, you know, like or poisoning or poisoning. So there I know that there's often people say, well, if you just start and, and and figure it out, then it's not about fear of starting something on the surface some more about like, I have to really think about environmental issues.And, and you know, how to, how to work with, with I just had cancer last year and I went faster. So, you know, I've been way more, aware of what art materials, but also all of the materials, like how we, how we use that. Right. Wearing masks. I have a studio in our home, so it's actually, you know, it's and it's next to my office.

So there are some things that you just have to think about. Same with old windows. I would love to work on old windows, but I still have to, you know, figure out how I'm going to, you know, deal with the with them that paint and that. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many things to consider when you're working with old salvaged materials that I guess I think, you know, even ten, 20 years ago, most of us didn't even think about the issues that come with that.

But now we we do. Because, you know, the vast you know, I work with plastic and I think about the thousands of chemicals that were mixed into the plastic. So I think about it as I work with them. That's why I don't hate them. I don't want to even think of releasing those chemicals, but because I don't work with salvaged materials, I don't think about the chemicals that were made, you know, thousand, thousand that made, you know, decades ago and how dangerous those chemicals could be if they're released.

Yeah. And they weren't oftentimes, like, added to it, you know, and I don't I mean, it's an interesting part of historic preservation per se, because there is an environmental part of historic preservation that many people forget, but that I find very important. So when I paint these buildings, I want people to to feel the story that the building conveys.

But also think about their the space, the space and what these buildings are and why, why, why, why do we preserve buildings?

And that is a very interesting conversation in itself, that it's not just our architecturally important buildings, it's also culturally, but also I strongly believe that one of the more important, more important arguments now for historic preservation that not many people outside of historic preservation and probably also not all school of historic preservationists are talking about are environmental issues, that we are demolishing old buildings and we are throwing them on children throats.

If you think about the the most, the environmentally greenest building is the one that already exists. Have done all your carbon footprint work on there. You created glass. You you you harvested, the, the wood, you know, like the smoking house, for example. A lot of the woodwork is made with, American chestnut wood, which is,

Yeah, it's it's endangered. Right. Yeah. Well, it's all it's not like it's not existing anymore as an old growth wood anymore, because there's a blight that started around 1900. And by 1950, like we grow them, but they don't get older than a couple years. Like, it's really, really sad. And so there's this old growth wood or we have windows that everyone's like, oh my God, how can you have old windows?

But there are 130 years old and if you use vinyl windows, you have to replace them about every 20 to 20 5 to 25 years. So if you think about the carbon footprint that is being, used or left behind by creating these windows over and over, and then think about the cost that these windows cost instead of maintaining old windows.

And if you give them enough and, you know, they can be there for over 100 years, you actually don't really set off that environment like that carbon footprint, that they're these old materials have used. You should kind of like, you know, where it's I'm not talking about asbestos. Of course, it's all of these things. But it's really it's really about the energy that is used to manufacture something new oftentimes exceeds what, what we can actually save and on on energy, when we restore old buildings and I'm not saying preserve those old buildings as they are.

Again, it's not about freezing that in times, but like, how do we how do we make it not a museum, but something that is used, especially with our housing crisis. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I think it totally makes sense if. Especially in cities, congested city like where you are in Jersey city, if their buildings are already standing, why not fix them so that they're livable instead of tearing them down?

And you know, that goes to the landfill and making something new. Yeah, that that makes sense to me. Especially for me, that is, you know, all connected, like using all the materials, like the ledger where you you're not raising what's there, you're actually just building on top of it, same as the buildings. When I do historic preservation, I'm not about this needs to be unless there is some some history that really needs to be taught.

Like you want to show that or something that happened there of course, that has his place to or like culturally. But if we're talking about reuse, adaptive reuse, how do we change them? Like factory into a loft or churches? There are a lot of churches that have been, you don't say decommissioned. I forgot what the word is.

Deep cut, deconsecrated, something like. Yeah, something like that. Right. So but, you know, we have a lot of churches that are being changed into apartment buildings or banks. I know in the Catskills where often, there's a bank that was changed into a brew pub, craft beer, brew pop. And I think it's such a great idea.

And you can sit in the safe, you know, like it's, you know, when I've seen other bands that are turned into restaurants and it's just like, it's just such a great way of, of not losing the history and the fabric of what we, as a society or people are like connecting with these buildings and the history.

But you're creating something new. Yeah. And that's what I feel about repurposing material as well, that you're you're repurposing. It's it's already out there. The plastic is already out there like you're you. Yeah. They made it. You're not saying make more plastic. You're just, you want to make people aware of what's out there. And that's that's the same thing I want.

I want to make people aware with my paintings of, here's a building, you're kind of connecting with it. What's the story? And why does this building matter to you when you look at it? Yeah. And then that opens up the discussion about, why is historic preservation something that we can think about besides maybe the stories that these buildings inhabit and, historical or cultural importance.

Maybe there is an environmental, component to that as well. Yeah. I never really thought about that before. I mean, I've seen some beautiful reuse of old buildings and it makes sense if the building is sound structurally or the structure can be easily repaired, why not use the materials that are existing instead of making something new from scratch?

And probably, not so good for the environment? Yeah. Totally makes sense. Well, so when you are repairing the, the your what do you call her. The old lady. Yeah. Oh so I'm assuming that some of the ways like caulking around the windows or the tiles, like some of the old ways of doing and I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I'm assuming that there's like, like the old glues, you know.

To be made from horses, we don't do that anymore. So I'm assuming that there are other ways, like some kind of caulk was made from something that is not really sustainable. So do you figure out new ways of say preserving the tiles or the windows in your home that are more sustainable than the old material, though? I'm well, I mean, I would I have where we left, we were very lucky that all of our wood, most of our wood work was not painted.

So we it was shellacked at some time. And I'm pretty sure that stuff was not healthy when they used it. Yeah. But I have we haven't redone it. We were very lucky that we and there were some parts of the, upper floors where they had, painted on the old oil based paint. It was like, besides that, we bought the house, but it was like a, I think in our region you might not know the term to.

And in New York and New Jersey, we call it the landlord's Special, the landlord, just like nowadays, just spray paints over whatever doesn't send anything. They sometimes even, spray paint over the, like, outlets and whatever. So our seller did that with the upstairs, spray painted over all the doors that were painted with oil based paint, which was underneath a little yellowish.

So it looked not like maybe what they wanted to have a pristine white to show. But of course, that then, you know, just all peeled, peeled off. So, we, we had a lot of work in a to

to just, you know, take off the the paint.

There are like, different, like, solvents that you can use that are environmentally better, like citrus. Yeah. I remember doing that with my parents. My parents bought a an old Tudor style home, and most of the wood was painted over. So I remember spending my weekends with them, removing all that paint. And we first started with the conventional paint removers and that stunk so bad.

And I'm sure it killed brain cells. Oh yeah, and then we had to. We figure it out. I think it was something citrus, something more natural. But of course it was. You need to and you had to put in more elbow grease in order to remove it. Oh, yeah, you definitely have to, but, yeah. And then if you don't have that paint, if you tested with that paint, you can actually remove it with he.

But you should really think about that. Yeah. Because that really, you know, maybe not LED but it releases all sorts of other chemicals. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So you would have to wear a mask and be really like vigilant about that. Yeah. So we, we did that, but we again we lucky with our old lady. So the next one of the next things that we need to do are the windows.

So our windows are 140 years old. They are fully windows. They still have their own original wifey glass, which is very special. But not all of them work. And some of them are cracked, so we have to take care of those. And, that's going to be a project where we actually have to learn how to do that.

A lot of our friends have done it with their own houses. So you you take it how do replace the windows? You just have to maybe repair the or replace the chain and the sides. The all the weights up and down or replace the weights. But the most of the, energy doesn't really go

Through the windows. It goes through the wall. So you don't want to do something to, you know, if you you put open your wall, you can. And that's what we do too. If we had to open like the ceiling, we would put like material for, you know, what you call it. Insulate. Yeah. Insulation. Oh, it's where your building is.

Brick. Right. So it's a brick. Oh I think I've seen this one. So it's a brick wall. And then there's sort of like these wooden slats last year left. That's right. And then is or it's what plaster. Plaster. That's what it is. And then a lot of people don't like either. But it's actually amazing because plaster lets your building brief.

So the brick, the brick lives because you can the moisture and everything can go into the break. And the plaster kind of like, takes it in, and then it breathes it out again. Oh, wow. And so it's a, it's a, it's a whole ecosystem that these old houses have actually that people have forgotten. And we tend to kind of like think it's better to just put drywall everywhere and paint the brick over.

And because when you paint brick, which is a very fashionable novel thing to do in the last couple of years, people paint their brick houses and then they get mad that they are not allowed to do that in an historic, district, because then someone actually looks into that and says, you shouldn't do that, and you shouldn't just use normal water.

You need to use other water. That's like a different mixture. It's actually saving your house, because what you will see, at some time is because the brick can't release the moisture out again. It starts to crumble and your house starts to crumble. Oh, wow. I didn't know that until I, you know, look right into this. Yeah, it's a no.

It's very interesting. Yeah. That is fascinating. So but you said you wanted to open up some walls and add insulation. Where is there if you have to do that anyway. Like we redid our bathroom. You know, I'm not interested in living in, we didn't even have an 1890s bathroom, but we had, someone redid the bathroom in the 50s, 60s and 80s.

We called it the Frankenstein, bathroom. And it was really terrible. With the window that was put in there in the 50s that was almost open. So we lived with that for two years, and it was very cold in the winter. And, you know, we have a modern kitchen to we're not we're not living like, I'm not a proponent of you're not living in a museum.

You know, I like I like, like modern, modern appliance conveniences. Yeah. Yes. So but when we did redid the bathroom, for example, we it was they lowered the ceiling, which was oftentimes done because, people wanted to save for heating costs. Okay. But then in the summer, the problem is, like, actually the high ceilings help you to have the house cooler, but whatever.

So when we opened that anyway, we were like, let's stuff insulation materials so that they it doesn't just go off out of the roof. So, so whenever we, we have to open a wall, we will we will put some insulation material where it's possible, but then we plaster it. So then what kind of do you have to think about what kind of insulation?

Like? You can't put fiberglass installation there, right? I wish I was that cool. I wish I was that I, I wish we would have been. We were more. But there are some trade offs. Like there's costs of course, involved. There's problems sometimes, like what your contractor is willing to go the laugh or you know what they do, which we try as much as possible, but also in the amount that's plus in the financials structure.

That's part. Yeah. No of course that makes sense. So like you know we did we did. We had asphalt for our most of our backyard. And that cost a lot of flooding to into our basement. So we recreate we we had a French drain drain put in there, but we also had, like, old blue stone and part of the base in the yard.

So we, we use the old blue stone for, patio. And then we have a parking lot, which is, you know, we are very fortunate. That's fortunate in that place. So, yeah. Oh, yeah, we have a spot. But we used, we use permeable pavers, for example, which are very, very often used in, Europe, for example, on parking spots.

So they are you might have seen them like they have like openings so that the, you know, grass can grow from. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you can park, you can park on it, but it lets your water be absorbed into the ground. Right. So what they asphalt removed from your backyard. And where like, like where does it go.

Landfill. Right. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. It's the, it's these are the problems that were created for convenience. You know I don't want to have any trees, I want to have asphalt. All right. You know, I thought it was a good idea, except they realized that there was so much flooding that could happen because you're, you know, there's no.

Where does it go? We're resurfacing everything with our parking spots and and stuff, and we don't think about where where is the water going to go. Right? So, I mean, I that it's very preachy, of course. And I'm not a I'm, we're not angels either. So, so like 100%. I think it's always like about the where, where are the ways where you can try to make a difference and think about it.

And for us, it's in in some ways in the House and of course in the lifestyle. Yeah. And you know, our material. I'm very happy about hearing that. Some manufacturers are starting to rethink what they use as paint material. I wish that was faster and better. Yes. No no no. Speaking about that though, you use mostly acrylic paint, right?

I do, which is a big problem. Yeah, yeah. So what. Yeah. Because essentially it's liquid plastic. But I actually, recently discovered and this was just a complete side project because I very rarely use paint in my work, but I do when I do use it. It is acrylic paint. I discovered that there's a plant based acrylic paint.

They're still calling it acrylic paint, which is probably the wrong name to call it, but it comes in. So we just I just bought some. I never played with it, but it comes in a powder and a gel, and you have to mix the two, and it's supposed to be plant based and it's supposed to act like acrylic paint.

So I know nothing about it because I haven't played with it yet. I just ordered a set. Is that something? Know it is. I would I would love to play with a, liquitex I'm mentioning. Full disclosure, I used to be their ambassador. Yeah. And I've worked with Liquitex for many years, so of course I'm biased and I have a lot of their acrylic paints and use a lot of their acrylic paint still, but they just came out with a bio based.

Yeah, I saw that acrylic paint paint. Right. And that's on my list to actually purchase it when I you know, we used a lot of my paints. I want to I want to really it sounds good. It's not 100%. I'm not 100% sure what that actually means. Like if that's just the, you know, Green Machine or I think, I think they're trying, which is very good.

But I think I saw a list of the most sustainable paints, acrylic paints and liquitex was on that list that like number six or something like that. And it's just interesting. I mean, I'm so glad that there are companies that are trying to do that. I think they have to. I mean, it's also like about where do you where do you put your paint?

Right? Like, oh, I mean, I know that, for example, or at Liquitex, there are people that work there that I have very high regard. So, one of the residents artists that, you know, to is Jimmy Leslie, who I think is as a mentor for me, and he was talking to me about not like washing your brushes out by by like, you know, you would, like, be under the water and you just like, go like, whisk this with the bristles of your brush.

And he's like, you're working the acrylic paint into your body when you do that. Like don't do that. Right. And also you're washing it down the drain. Exactly. It's going out there. Yeah I know of artists who use, I guess cloth or towels to or paper towels with at. Yeah, filters and stuff to catch the, the the all of that.

Okay. Yeah, I know that Jimmy Leslie he recommended and I do that is, a little box of cat litter, cat litter like you can use. You know, you don't have to use the the bad one you can use, like, whatever and not or and then that binds for by like you, you pour it into the cat litter.

Oh. And then it dries out and then you can I mean it's still unfortunately going to the landfill, but it's not in your water system. So that's what I, I have a little box in my artist, studio kitchen which has like a little like slab. And then I pour, poured down there. Oh, into the, into the cat litter.

So then how do you. So you wash the brushes in a cup and then pour it down? Yeah. And the rest of the water that you use. So, I mean, there's still something going into the drain. But it's less than, you know, if you would do the whole nine yards of it, right, right. It's it's all, it's a lot when you're playing daily.

Yeah, yeah, but at least there's some things you can do about it these days. Right. It's actually being talked about as opposed to. Yeah. It was never talked about in the past. And you just let it wash down the drain. It's certainly nothing that I ever thought of when I back when I used to paint. So yeah I yeah.

And and when we talk about it's not a perfect perfect solution yet. Right, right. But if you talk about a. Yeah exactly. And so, so you go and then you, you have manufacturers all all of a sudden thinking, well, that might be a good idea. You know, it's not all about like that. They're conscious about it.

It's also about regulations and us asking to change their ways or take that into consideration. And and if I have to like, paints, as all of us artists now are very expensive, if I can, change the way how I spend my money on that when I have to, then I certainly will if I can afford it. Yeah, and if enough of us are changing the way we're spending our money on those paints, then those paint manufacturers are going to do something about it eventually.

Exactly. Yeah. Money talks exactly. Unfortunately. Does this. Oh well that's fascinating I love that we went from painting in ledgers to historic preservation of your home to tiles to wood and then back to paint. It's, you know everything. It's it's something very it's fascinating. I mean, it's nothing that I ever have anything to do with. But that's why I love being able to ask questions of people who do like this is it's just it's very fascinating.

Now, are you writing a book currently? I do, yes, I'm writing a book about, the house. The old lady. Because I did some research into the history of our house, and I found it very fascinating that many different people, families lived in the house. The house was not in the possession of one family, wasn't the possession of the builder, but how it is often in cities.

This apartment or these buildings, these townhouses were oftentimes also spec houses that they speculation houses that, that's why you see five buildings look the same, like if you go through a city, take a look and you will oftentimes see in an older city that, you know, oh, why is there the why are there five houses or six houses that look the same?

It was because someone built bought these lots were speculation. They built these, all the same kind of houses. Some they have some things that look a little different, but they're basically the same kind of stuff because it was easier to build all the same type of house. Exactly. And then they might either sell it, or in this case, for example, these were all rented out.

So, a lot of in the beginning, a lot of families that lived in this house, in my house or in four other houses said, look, kind of the identical next to ours, stones were like well-to-do upper middle class families that lived here for 1 or 2 years. And then they were in the neighborhood or something in a in a big mansion or whatever.

And then but as time progresses and, you know, that city changes, the people change, too. And so I felt that, that there was a lot of, it was I very interesting, like the history of the city and the history of, of you, the US could be told by the people and families that have lived in this house and, their stories and so on.

Basically the how the, the title is, as these walls could talk, it's like I would say sometimes, like, I wish these walls could talk when I found some really crazy stories or interesting stories about people who lived here. And so the promises that the old lady says, but but what if what if I if they can.

Yeah. The book. That's fascinating. Do you have a publisher yet? I do not have a publisher. I'm still thinking about if I want to self-publish or go to. I published an art book before I'd follow adventures and mixed media. Very different, technique and technique book. Our technique book. And, and so I'm not sure if I want to go that road again with a publisher or not.

That's. I'm almost done with my first draft of the manuscript, so I'm excited thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah, I think, well, I'm sure the publishing world is changing, too these days. There's so many ways I know I self-published a little book as well. Yeah, I, I know nothing about that, but that's that's fascinating. So good luck.

I thank you, thank you. I can't wait until you figure it out. And then we can all read your book. Yeah. If you want to read a little bit or follow me along, I actually have a Substack. Oh, right. Page where I share for some of the subscribers, some of the drafts of the book so that they can read it.

Definitely put a link to that. Yeah, they support me. You can support me in publishing the book, but also, I write free articles about my artwork and the story is behind the artwork on the historic preservation. So. And then I and obviously those stories are fascinating because I, I've read some of them and I knew I had to talk to you again.

Oh that's awesome. Do you have any more exhibitions coming up? I don't have an exhibition right now. I was working on one, which I'm very sad that it's not going to work out right now. I wanted to do an exhibition with a photographer friend, but I have, for reasons the. He has to put a stop on it.

But basically, we wanted to work on something where I paint on the neighborhood, some neighborhood buildings, and he photographed some neighborhood buildings. And then we went to make an exhibition and, do a walking tour. Oh, so that's going to be on ice. So, right now, I think rethinking of what I should work on now, I, I do want to dive.

I, I'm not thinking really of another exhibition. I wanted to dive a little bit more into this exploration of architectural salvage and how to include that in my artwork, as we talked about before. Oh, I can't wait to see that. Never. Thank you so much, Nat. This has been a fascination. Fascinating discussion, as always. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. Giving me the opportunity to talk about my artwork. And, you know, I always love talking to you. Absolutely.

I love talking to Nat. It's really, really wonderful to reconnect after a few years of not talking in depth. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I think architectural historic preservation is also part of repurposing, so it was fascinating to learn about that. As I clearly know, nothing about it. So thank you, Nat, for all that information.

Please do check out all the links in the show notes and follow Nat on Instagram

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This podcast was created, produced and edited by me, Natalya Khorover, theme music by RC Guida.