Conversation with Robin Frohardt

Please enjoy my conversation with Robin Frohardt. ​​

Known for her rich aesthetic and highly detailed constructions, Robin Frohardt is an award-winning theater and film director. Her narrative-based film, puppetry, and sculpture, use recognizable materials, often trash, to create richly detailed worlds that make magic of the mundane and highlight the trivialities of daily life. Her theatrical work has earned her a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Creative Capital Award, and multiple Jim Henson Foundation Grants. 

Her amazing project THE PLASTIC BAG STORE premiered in Times Square in 2020 and has since toured to Los Angeles, Chicago, Adelaide, and Austin and Mass MOCA.

 https://www.robinfrohardt.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/jawbonepuppettheater/

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-pacific-garbage-patch/

https://cargocollective.com/cardboardinstitute

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to salvage, a podcast for conversations with artists about the repurposed materials they use in their art practice.

Please enjoy my conversation with Robin Frohardt. Known for her rich esthetic and highly detailed constructions. Robin Frohardt is an award winning theater and film director. Her narrative based film, puppetry and sculpture use recognizable materials, often trash, to create highly, richly detailed worlds that make magic of the mundane and highlight the trivialities of daily life.

Her theatrical work has earned her a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Creative Capital Award,

and multiple Jim Henson Foundation grants. Her amazing project, The Plastic Bag Store, premiered in Times Square in 2020 and has since toured to Los Angeles, Chicago, Adelaide, Austin and Mass MOCA.

Thank you, Robin, for being here today. I'm totally fangirling a fan for a long time. I'm so excited to talk to you. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Well, if you don't mind, if I could start from your beginning. Were you an artist as a kid? I was always creative. I think I started more as a performer, thinking that I, you know, would be on set.

Totally makes sense. Yeah. I yeah, I was really into acting and comedy and, but I wasn't really much of a maker until probably my. You know, mid-twenties. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. What did you go to school for? I, I changed my major, in school to to art, without really even having a lot of experience in that,

I just sort of had started experimenting with making things and kind of was like, oh, this is this is sort of the direction I want to go. And so, I some of my first art experiences were actually just in school. Yeah. Oh, that's very cool. Yeah. And what kind of art did you make in school? I studied painting, but I, you know, I really enjoyed.

I took all kinds of had to take all kinds of, you know, 3D design and, all kinds of other kinds of classes, and, but I, I really loved painting. I just kind of never really knew. Well, after school, like what? To paint. Yeah. But I loved the process, and I loved the materials. And, I still enjoy painting things.

You know, it's still one of my favorite parts of my process. Yeah. Painting is fun. I recently had a chance to paint a few things, and it was a nice.

It was a lovely break for what I usually do. So, yeah, I really thoroughly enjoyed that. Yeah, I like the being able to sit in one place and just use one tool.

So much else of what I do involves so many different kinds of materials and building. And, you know, it's not quite is, just an isolated kind of practice. Yeah. It's quite involved. Yes. It's really quite amazing.

was it in school? Did you discover your love for puppetry and all things, sort of. Well, you had performance, but you know, coming together plays and, I, at the time, I, after school, I, after I left school, I went to, I moved to San Francisco and, I worked, at this really eccentric bar that was like a venue for, an unlikely entertainment.

So the rule was no bands, no DJs, but anything else. So, the, like, circus stuff and burlesque and weird one man shows and comedy and, puppet shows. And I saw, puppet performance that came through there, by a company called Jawbone Puppet Theater. And they were from Seattle, and they did a whole Charles Bukowski story, about necrophilia.

But it was all done in puppets. And I just was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. It was like a, you know, living painting, you know? Yeah. I started to kind of go into puppetry then. And what appealed to me about it was it was just sort of, it was like all of the art practices at once.

So, you know, to, like, make these puppet performances, I had to write something, I had to sculpt something. I had to paint something, I had to perform something. So, I really liked that. It was kind of the. Yeah, the amalgamation of all of the different practices I was interested in. That is very, very cool. Yeah. I guess even without puppetry, theater would be that and film to some extent as well.

For sure. For sure. Yeah, I, I only worked in theater for a very short time, but I spent about a decade in film doing wardrobe and television. So I have an idea of how it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wonderful.

did you then just start writing plays or like, Like what? How did you get into this?

Because I saw that you have a play that I think was written in 2013. Yeah. The like that. That's a bit performance. Yeah. I, yeah, I in San Francisco just with like a group of friends, we put together a small puppet troupe, and we would write our own shows and make our own stuff and perform them, you know, just around we would do perform on the street or at parties or events.

Not necessarily in a professional context, but, Yeah. So. So, yeah. And then when I moved to New York, I wanted to continue to do that. And I, you know, I started to

concept the beginning there. And I worked, I worked for other artists who were, you know, other visual artists and other theater artists, too, just like, for work, you know, to help make things.

And I learned a lot of skills along the way. And then as a while, I was, like, slowly chipping away and, developing this full length piece, The Pigeoning, which was like my first full length play. That was all all puppetry. Yeah. Well, is it a film as well, or it was just, because I saw the trailer for it.

Yeah. Unfortunately not. I wish it was because I, I would love to, like, share it with people, but, you know, it's all in a box in my basement right now. Oh, premiered that in 2013 at Here Arts Center in New York. And then we toured it around quite a bit and, we took took it to, several different theaters and colleges in the United States.

We also took it to Germany and Singapore and Cairo and I'm sure I'm forgetting somewhere else. But, we got to you got to travel it around for a while, which was really, really fun. So I'm assuming you have, like, your troupe of go to puppet masters and. Yeah, I kind of brought I made the pigeon. I kind of put together a team of people who were in the puppet world.

And we all really bonded, and, became a, tight knit group. And then I used those same puppeteers when I developed the plastic bag story as well. Oh, cool. So, of course, The Plastic Bag Store is when I really discovered your work. And I was very, very upset at myself for not getting a chance to see it in Times Square.

But I made the last ditch effort to go see it at Mass MOCA. And so, my daughter and I made it there for I think it was the second to the last weekend. It's so hard. Sometimes life gets in the way to scheduling. Yeah, we drove all the way up there and we were ten minutes late. Oh no.

Oh, my heart dropped. It was like, oh my God, I can't believe this. Because this is, you know, two hour drive, two plus hours. I bet I was so upset, but I begged the guy downstairs let us in. And they did. They snuck us in on the side. Thank God. So I'm curious. Yeah, we missed just a few of those few ten minutes, but I'm so glad that I made that effort and saw it.

It was really quite incredible. Thank you. Are you is it scheduled to be anywhere else in the near future? We're we're in conversations about that. It will definitely have a future, but nothing I can announce at the moment. Got I got it. Okay. Well, okay. So I have so many questions about the Plastic Bag Store.

first, when did you become aware of the plastic pollution problem?

Yeah. I mean, I think I've all, you know, I've always been very environmentally conscious, but I think sort of like, you know, in the. Oh.

You know, 20 tens it started to really I think a lot of the messaging in general in the world became stronger about that. I feel like public started to be more aware of that because I feel like everyone was sort of under this illusion that we had recycling and that, problem solved.

But I think there were some, you know, really strong studies and images and, the whole, you know, discovery of the garbage patch in the Pacific, I think that kind of came into public consciousness and sort of learning about that around then as when I really started to think about it and then, just sort of got the idea for the plastic bag store being at the grocery store and seeing someone double and triple bag all my groceries that were already bags inside of boxes, inside of bags and, just sort of being struck by the ridiculousness of it.

And then, being like, oh, well, why don't I just make it more ridiculous? Like, what if there was a grocery store that only sold packaging? And so that's sort of where at the concept came out of, I love that, but you from the beginning seem to be using easily, shall we say, easily accessible recyclable materials like cardboard.

Yeah. Yeah. Very stark. Yeah. I worked I started working with cardboard and San Francisco, with a group of friends. We started a little collective called the Cardboard Institute of Technology, and we would build these really elaborate, cardboard, installations. And I really loved the, limiting myself to one material or seeing how far you can push one material, which I feel like is infinite.

And so it was also fun to, try to challenge myself to see how far I could push this new material. Like, what is it about cardboard? What if it's all plastic? Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's quite incredible.

Did you from the beginning decide it was going to be this whole.

Movie within a performance kind of thing, or did it start off as a smaller idea first?

Definitely started up smaller. All ideas start off small, and what it ended up, its whole concept was something I never could have really, like thought of all at once. You know, at first I was like, oh, I just want to make this installation. That's just the fake grocery store and put it in a real storefront and, oh, okay.

You confuse people. But then I sort of, you know, was reading that all the plastic that's ever been created still exists in some form, or it breaks down into smaller particles, but it doesn't get eaten by anything. So, I sort of saw I was like, oh, wow. Like a straw that I used in a Happy Meal as a child.

It's like still in the world somewhere. And that was like a kind of different, mind expanding way to think about it. And so I, you know, realizing, oh, if that lasts, you know, that these things are going to last for thousands of years and potentially in that, someone could discover them, in the future. And, and or they certainly will.

And, I thought it would be funny if they, like, misinterpreted what these things were and what their significance was. And, you know, I think it's interesting, the real discrepancy between, like, how quick the sort of time that these items are designed to be used for and how long they last. It's like, do the things that we are only like in our possession for a second sometimes, and they last forever.

And I just thought that was like a really interesting concept. And, so originally so I was like, oh, trying to imagine who, who would be this person in the future that discovered this stuff and how might they misinterpret it? And that's sort of where the story began. And then I knew that I wanted it to be like a, you know, I wanted this, the story to transform into this immersive performance.

And then it took, you know, quite a long time to kind of figure out exactly how that worked. Right? Originally, I had designed it, to be all live, all of the puppetry that you see in the film. And we developed it that way, and we were actually supposed to open that version in Times Square. And we developed it and rehearsed it, and we were supposed to open on March 18th, 2020, which was a super cool day for theater.

The world. So obviously we weren't able to open we we got it all ready. We did one dress rehearsal, and then that was the day that basically de Blasio shut down New York City for. So, the grocery store, everything, the whole thing just sat in Times Square for months. And, I received a little bit of funding from CAP UCLA to film part of it to present online, because they were going to present the show live.

But a lot of the theater seasons went, you know, people were sharing filmed versions of theater over the pandemic. Okay. So the idea was to just film it to share during the pandemic. But and so we did that and and the film turned out better than I at imagined. You know, filming a live theater is really hard, but we wanted to make it look cinematic, like film, instead of just, like one camera filming, like the stage, you know?

So we, we shot it, and it turned out really beautiful. And then we had this opportunity with the Plastic Bag Store still in Times Square

in the fall of 2020, we were allowed to reopen, but because of limited capacity side sizes, because of Covid, we did the math. And it was like if we did the live version with the full cast, we could have an audience of about six people.

So and and if because it was a small space and so if but if we used the films instead, we could have like 15 people, a big cast or audience. So it would is still small. But yeah, we opted for that. And I realized that there was a way to sort of share the films in the same way, still use all the immersive elements that we had planned.

And that actually it was better and easier. And, you know, there's so many like, details and nuances in that story that I don't want people to miss. And so it's nice to have that locked in place and to be able to have been able to edit it. So I never really imagined it to be a film thing, but it actually has made it more, it's made it better in so many ways, and mostly in the way that we can just do it multiple times a day.

Like I think we did like 350 performances or something at Mass MOCA during our run, and that just never would have been possible with the whole live cast, right? Right. It's just too expensive and to complicated and and so it was ultimately a boon, you know, that. That's very cool. Yeah. So technical questions. How did you make all those components of that grocery store?

Let's start with the fruits and vegetables like, did you just sit there and sculpt like one vegetable at a time figuring it out? And I would probably add multitudes helping. Yeah. Not as many as you would think, really. The bulk of that store was made by about three people, so. Oh, wow. We, yeah, we would sort of experiment with the material.

You know, we had the list of things, of course, that we wanted to make, and we figured with like, bananas, we could like so long tubes and stuff them, you know, and then tape the ends and some things we would, you know, ball up and twist. And sometimes the material informed the object, like we would find something.

You'd be like, oh my gosh, this looks just like romaine, you know? Right. Sometimes we would try to make something that we knew we needed, or we'd find a bag of a certain color. We'd be like, oh, this is these are beets, obviously. So. So, so it was kind of an experiment every single time. Yeah. Finding different ways.

So I couldn't really examine them too closely. I was dying to pick up everything and really examine it, but I controlled myself. Was it mostly glued or was it some sewing involved, too? Yeah, I would say like sewing, gluing, taping, melting, melting. Do. Okay. Yeah, I like ironing sometimes, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh well all kinds of ways.

Did you have like, a call out for collecting all that soft plastic. Yeah. I had, I had, calls out to, like, friends and neighbors and stuff to collect certain things for me. And I like raided bins, and I found things on the street. And, you know, I never passed by like a colorful bag on the street without picking it up.

So, yeah, it was a real all out effort. And there was a plastic bag ban that went into effect in New York. Yeah, right about the time we opened. So before that, there was just a it's just so many bags now. Yeah, right. Hard to find all the colors. But at the time it was, unfortunately kind of easy.

Yeah. No, I, I find out actually even since the ban, I still find so many plastic bags, not the actual shopping bags, but all other kind of packaging. Yeah, exactly. Thank. It's overabundant. Yes. So,

and then that

ice plastic cave that was such like. I was not expecting that. Yeah. I don't know if I missed photos of it ahead of time because I like the idea.

Oh, okay. Good. Yeah. And is that like a grid or something? And you have it all just. Yeah, we have it all. We have, like, big, big sheets of it that are, you know, have all the bags attached that we then, like, roll up for transport. Yeah. Oh. And, the other thing about the grocery store, did someone, did you scavenge all those, bins and refrigerators and stuff like that?

Yeah, some some stuff is scavenged to the coolers and stuff. Are definitely scavenged, the shelving, but scavenged and then modified, you know, because we have to make, all the it's, all transforms, you know, and does different things. So we, modify a lot of it, some of the stuff, some of the produce bins we had to build from scratch to accommodate our needs, you know, to turn into seating and stuff.

Yeah, yeah. I loved the, the all the boxes of cereal and things like that. I think I took a gazillion photos. Okay. I really appreciate your humor. It was just. Yeah. Oh, so, so good.

What about your Dumpster Monster? Is that, is that come before the beginning or. Yeah. There was actually a, there's a scene in the beginning, you know the first play where the main character Frank like sort of despises filth and disorder and he has a nightmare and all kinds of crazy stuff happened in the, in the nightmare.

But one thing is that this, New York City trash can that's over for, like, inflates into this monster. And so I made this small one, and then I was like, oh, I want to make, like, a dumpster size one. So that's kind of where that came from. Okay. Yeah, well, I built the dumpster from scratch because I was going to try to get a dumpster, and then I was like, wait, dumpster is a very heavy.

So I did build something that was modular, you know, so that I can, like, pack it up and store it and all that. So is it would, I mean, originally made it out of wood, and then I remade it out of foam. Oh. Because I needed to pack it in a crate and ship it, makes it make sense.

Yeah. And is that monster seen anywhere? He he travels with us. He's with the plastic bags. Comes for some events. We when we took, you know, we'll put it on the street and do performances with. Oh, okay. And. Yeah. No, that was great. And the little roaches on the sticks. Yeah. Yeah.

I loved it.

what about your new project? I was taking a look at the Home Depot parking lot. Yeah, yeah. And, Yeah. Tell me correct. Is, a,

A mostly cardboard project returning to my roots. But, I made these several different cardboard animations, part of one, you know, it was part of the plastic bag store. And, another others previously. And I wanted to continue to work that way because it's very satisfying. And so I, so the Home Depot parking lot is that.

But I'm going to be, kind of creating it on stage. So I will have all of the sets and puppets and scenery on stage with cameras. So we'll be like creating, you know, moving the top, moving the scenes around and activating this world while filming it, and then live feeding the filming kind of above us. So you'll see, wow.

You'll see sort of the process and the final product all at the same time. Oh, that sounds so cool with live music and stuff. And, it's kind of scary, you know, carrying on in the similar vein that I've been working in, you know, with environmental catastrophe and, consumerism. And this is a piece that's inspired by, my childhood.

And, you know, I grew up in Colorado Springs, Colorado, which is, like so many towns just overrun with these big box stores and kind of vapid, empty shopping center spaces that are just sort of transforming, the country and,

and so it's kind of an exploration of, of that and what it's like to be,

natural creature in these environments and how it is the built world in the natural world, like, are they like, is the man made world in the natural world the same thing, or are we separate or, just sort of like reexamining our I kind of like, connection to nature, kind of through the lens of

this, like, shopping center parking lot. I can't wait to see it. I was watching the trailer and there was a, a portion of a phrase that you said, that really struck me that you feel embarrassed to be in a forest. Yeah. I don't know if that's. That's like something I've said before, and I don't know exactly how to explain that feeling, but it feels.

I think sometimes I felt growing up like that, I came from nowhere because I didn't have a, culture, you know, like my whole town is just chain stores, you know? And so I felt like that was like a personal failing. I, you know. Yeah. And it's just that feeling of. Yeah, like, what's it.

Yeah. Of like, we feel really disconnected from ourselves as natural creatures.

We're just more like most valued customers, you know? Yeah. And that can feel really chintzy next to the, you know, the grandeur of a forest. Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah, yeah. I, I love being out in the forest, but.

Yeah. Do I fit in there? Yeah. Like clothes and, like, big boots, you know? Yeah. Like you feel worthy or something.

I don't know, I that a lot of the things in the show are like, organic. You've kind of be in that vein that they're like.

Not really like very specific thoughts, but maybe they trigger some sort of like amorphous feelings or thoughts that we are having, you know, without putting too fine a point on it or, or having a specific point of view or answer, or they're just kind of more like speculations or musings. Yeah, yeah, things to ponder. Yeah. So I, I do have a, a question that I don't know that there's an answer to, but I'd love for you to try.

So as an artist in this day and age and everything that's going on in this country and in this world with really the climate crisis upon us, what do you think is a role of an artist in all of this? Yeah, I think it's to sort of.

I mean, I wish there was like a less cheesy way to say this, but, like statistics and facts and figures and, of what is happening, you know, that sort of like, like, is a for your brain that's, you know, that's how to reach people's brains. But I don't think you change anything until you kind of reach like hearts and souls or something.

So there has to be a different way in, you know, like, because obviously we aren't like, people who operate, logically, like we know the damage that we're causing and we're still doing it. So we can't appeal to just like the math, you know, that, we have to sort of we have to sort of get at the heart of it, I think, to for people to, like, understand what's at stake or what is lost or and I think that also the at least true me.

I mean, I definitely use humor as a coping mechanism. You know, a lot of like the plastic pollution statistics and, I just like, just too overwhelming. It's just. Yeah, horrifying. It's too dark. And so I feel like if there's a way that we can kind of, like, use humor or, you know, instead of just, like, presenting people with, like, terrifying images, just more like, invite them into this, like the plastic bags or is like this kind of weird, surreal, kind of humorous space, you know, that, that you're more willing to like, sit in that longer instead of just like swiping past something you don't want to see or deal with it, like,

I can't, there's something that's engaging that maybe people like, sit with it longer and it has a deeper impact or. Yeah, yeah. Instead of just overwhelm and depression that there's accessing a lot of other feelings. Yeah, yeah. No, I think even someone like me who studies this stuff makes art from this stuff and understands the whole idea behind it.

Even, you know, I will quickly, you know, do the doomscrolling and, you know, fall down a rabbit hole of being completely depressed and upset about it. Yeah. A person who is not engaged in the arts, in the plastic arts, shall we say. Good. Yeah. That's so hard. I so hope that there is a solution for this all.

I loved your presentation that you did for Beyond Plastics. That was great. And, Christy Rupp did a wonderful one to that day, so that was really wonderful there. Great organization. Yeah. All about promoting them. I think I mentioned that one. Everybody gets there, but yeah. Yeah. They're wonderful. Yeah, yeah. So is there, there's the cardboard Home Depot parking lot project, but is there a another plastic project in your future?

I don't know. I don't want to say yes or no, but, I mean, I'm certainly like, I'm looking for, you know, I certainly like I like to mix things up. And it's kind of nice to not be like. I mean, this is a problem I often have for, It's nice to not to be surrounded by this thing that I despise, you know?

Yeah. It's like, oh, I hate plastic bags. And now I own more plastic bags than anyone I know. You know? So I would like to get out of the plastic collection business. And, but I'm. Yeah, I think, as an artist, I'm always going to want to do something different, I think. But I think there's a through line, through all the work.

Honestly, that's all kind of connected. Yeah, I think that's pretty clear. Yeah, yeah. I, one of the comments I often face is especially, you know, when people hear about the plastic bags being outlawed in New York and all these restrictions and they're like, oh, you're going to run out of material soon. What are you going to do next?

Yeah, yeah, I'll be so happy to material. Be so cool. If it was obsolete. Yeah, I'll come up with something else. I'm not worried. Yeah, yeah. Don't keep making it on my behalf. Yeah, right. I'm good. Where do you store all of these sets and things? Yeah. All of the plastic bag store is in a is in a container in Connecticut.

Sometimes it gets stored with other theatrical projects in large storage units. Yeah, but fortunately, not in my home anymore. Oh, good.

00:31:10:20 - 00:31:33:00

Unknown

Yeah. I now have a studio outside the home, so. And, well, my studio is really tiny, so. And there's storage now, but no more plastic gets stored at my home either anymore. It really adds up. The beginning of this project was, yeah, my studio was insane. I can just imagine your bins and things are multicolored plastics or divided by color, I assume.

Yeah. And having to, like, clean all of it. And everything was a big, big undertaking. Yeah. And I just from me looking at all the plastic in, in the plastic bag store, it looks like it's all holding up pretty well. Well, you know, it's what it's designed to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah it will it'll last better. Better, I think in the museum than in the ground, I suppose. Yeah. No, that's where it will not last. And the ground. Yeah. Yeah I keep, trying to figure out, long term outdoor installations and

so far resin I think I think is the only way to go. But that's creating new plastic.

So. Yeah, it's, it's just a slippery slope. I don't know what what it is a challenge that I'm always kind of dealing with, too, is like, how there's waste and, you know, all kinds of making. You know, I don't claim to be, like, a zero waste person. So very difficult. It's hard to know. Like what? What, like, is the message the just the power of the message outweigh the stuff that I had, the energy I had to use to create it.

And it's like there's literally no way to gauge that. But like, I, I kind of have no choice. I have to keep making stuff, you know, but I don't have a backup plan.

So is everything you make, sort of theater film related, or do you make any wall art ever, or sculptures that are just on their own? Not necessarily. I probably should, Sounds so much easier. I'm, I normally, you know, my process is kind of slow, so kind of like a snowball. It just kind of, like, builds and builds and builds on, like, the Home Depot idea, you know, was just like a

a couple of, like, a three page essay that I wrote that could have just been an essay.

And then it was maybe a cardboard short, and then it was going to be a feature like film, and now it's going to be a film and a play. And so I'm just like, think that I just have to embrace that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Where is your studio, if you don't mind me asking? I have a studio in New York City on the go live work situation that I've been in for about 16 years.

Oh, nice. Nice, affordable and large space in New York, which is like, wow, how did you do that? Yeah. Just timing. I mean, it was like I said, you know, 16 years ago that I moved in, so. Yeah. Yeah. Oh that's awesome. Yeah. Well, I have to say that if you ever need an extra pair of hands, I would be happy to come up.

Where are you? Best. I'm in. Well, my studio is in Port Chester, so it's Westchester County, just north of New York City. Oh, okay. Fantastic. Yeah. So I'm nearby, and I would happily help. Wow. That's wonderful. Awesome. Yeah. Well, well, thank you so much for your time. I. And my pleasure. I'm sure I have. I can come up with many more questions, but I want to be respectful of your time and, just want to tell you how much I really do appreciate your work.

Oh, well, I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah,

Oh my gosh, what a great conversation! I totally fangirl. I was so nervous and she was so gracious. And I could have asked so many more questions.

But I kind of got scared and clammed up. So hopefully Robin will be able to speak to us again in the near future. I just, such an admirer of her talent and her artistry. She is incredible. Please go take a look at everything she's doing. And it's April. It's Earth month.

The Repurposer Collective doors are open. Please join us. If you love to make art with repurposed materials.

If you'd like to learn about my art, go take a look at Art By Natalya.com. If you'd like to learn with me, go to Eco Loop.Art.

Thanks for being here.

This podcast was created, produced and edited by me. Natalya Khorover , theme music by RC Guida.